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Author Topic: Stretching Mirrored Edges  (Read 4357 times)
Mike Guilbault
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« on: October 30, 2013, 10:07:57 PM »
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I've done a few mirrored edge gallery wraps but trying to improve the edges on the wrap during the stretch.  Sometimes they're a little off and I need to re-stretch.  Part of the problem seems to be the stretchability of the canvas.  I'm using BC Lyve.  Do you find it stretches more than other canvas?  Any little tricks to getting the mirrored edge right on the edge of the wrap?
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darlingm
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2013, 10:37:19 PM »
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I've done a few mirrored edge gallery wraps but trying to improve the edges on the wrap during the stretch.  Sometimes they're a little off and I need to re-stretch.  Part of the problem seems to be the stretchability of the canvas.  I'm using BC Lyve.  Do you find it stretches more than other canvas?  Any little tricks to getting the mirrored edge right on the edge of the wrap?

You'll see some good responses at: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=72081.0

When I posted that, I was embedding the extra whitespace I want for stretching in the file, then have a 1px black line that I carefully cut off, evenly.  That way, I can center the frame until the measurements are the same on opposing sides.  I often have the first edge I'm going to staple have about 1/8" extra, to account for that it's going to stretch.

I'm still doing that.  It's still driving me nuts.

I haven't tried Peter/neile's dressmaking pins idea.  Can't believe I wouldn't see them after, but really should try it because they both swear it works.

I'm seriously considering building a large light table for this purpose, to instantly be able to see the edge from the back of the canvas when matching up the frame.  Really liked bill's older method.  They're expensive when large, hence the considering building it part.  Hopefully a winter project.
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Mike • Westland Printworks
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Mike Guilbault
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2013, 08:48:53 AM »
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I've watched a framer friend of mine use the pins.  Seems to work well.  I'm more concerned though about what happens during the actual stretching phase. Since I'm stretching by hand (BC Stretch Relief pliers), it a little more difficult to get a consistent stretch all the way around the canvas and one edge may stretch more than the other bringing the transition off the edge.  I guess I just need to work on my technique more. I heard somewhere that 'practice makes perfect' Wink
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John Nollendorfs
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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2013, 11:58:14 AM »
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Mike:
Instead of using "mirrored" edges, I use intelligent fill. If there is a "hard" demarcation, I soften that with the clone tool.

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Mike Guilbault
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2013, 02:38:35 PM »
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I have used that as well and usually do… but sometimes that won't work depending on the image.  I've used a combination of both as well. 
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jferrari
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 08:02:31 PM »
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Mike:
Instead of using "mirrored" edges, I use intelligent fill. If there is a "hard" demarcation, I soften that with the clone tool.

But what if your client has requested a mirror wrap?
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jferrari
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 08:05:49 PM »
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The real trick here is twofold. Custom strainer frames (to the sixteenth of an inch) and don't "stretch" your canvas merely make it "taut." The later is more easily accomplished using an over laminate (as applied by heat press or roller press) rather than a liquid process. I struggled with exactly the same problem until the day the vacuum press arrived. Different canvases have different compositions. Some are 100% cotton, some are 100% poly and some fall somewhere between. Take, for example, a 50-50 blend where the weft is cotton blend and the warp is poly. It will "stretch" in one direction and "become taut" in the other, if you follow me. The over laminate all but eliminates issues with cracking at the edges and further serves to mitigate sagging over time. My gallery wraps are drum tight and the mirrors line up perfectly, consistently.      - Jim
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Mike Guilbault
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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 08:45:46 PM »
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Afraid I don't have the room (or budget) for a vacuum press. Back to the practice thing.
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Mark Lindquist
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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2013, 09:20:17 PM »
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I have a favorite large piece that is about 60 x 38 and it has a mirrored edge that creates chevrons at the edges.  When it is stretched perfectly, it rocks.  When it's off, it is noticeable and not great.  Getting it perfect is a real problem.  It requires 4-6 times on and off the stretcher to get it right, no matter how good one is.  I couldn't use an overlaminate (not saying that is not good) because I'm really fussy about the finish.  Getting difficult canvases stretched just right is an art itself and requires more than experience, patience, and fortitude.

As Mark Twain put it:  "A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way..."
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jferrari
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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2013, 05:48:20 AM »
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I couldn't use an overlaminate (not saying that is not good) because I'm really fussy about the finish.  Getting difficult canvases stretched just right is an art itself and requires more than experience, patience, and fortitude.

Just curious, Mark, what is it about the finish of the over laminate that you don't like?      - Jim
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2013, 06:24:28 AM »
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Mike:
Instead of using "mirrored" edges, I use intelligent fill. If there is a "hard" demarcation, I soften that with the clone tool.


Right, there are more ways to get it done. The image content usually dictates what is not the right wrap, usually some solutions remain. A blur on the wrap + edge (selection feathered) helps too.

http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/six-canvas-wrap-actions.htm

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

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July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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Mark Lindquist
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2013, 10:44:05 PM »
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Just curious, Mark, what is it about the finish of the over laminate that you don't like?      - Jim

Jim,
Your mileage may vary, but my experience with laminates over coatings is that they tend to either muddy or change the image (like too muddy or too glossy, etc.).  I like as little between the actual image and the viewer as possible.  I have not yet seen an overlaminate that I found was comparable to the quality of what we can achieve or have had done in the way of carefully applied coating such as Glamour Gloss or Timeless, or others.  Granted, my exposure to the very best of the best of overlaminates may be  limited, but that's my reason and my thinking.  I guess there would be an arguement:  "what about face mounting"?  (Being the ultimate "overlaminate).  Again, FWIW / YMMV - just my personal preference.  - Mark
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jferrari
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2013, 07:01:22 AM »
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Your mileage may vary, but my experience with laminates over coatings is that they tend to either muddy or change the image (like too muddy or too glossy, etc.)

Hi Mark. Guess we've "borrowed" Mike's thread! Just a quick story to let you know how I arrived where I am with my canvas gallery wrapped prints. I print solely for professional photographers that go from show to show selling their prints. When I first started coating I tried Clear-Shield which was expensive and inconsistent. So then I tried a coating designed for floors which cracked. Then I moved on to Glamour II (no UV protection) and Timeless. Results with these products was decidedly better but I still was frustrated waiting for the initial out-gassing of the print and the drying time of the coating. Large orders took up soooo much real estate plus I can't tell you how many prints were ruined due to the introduction of hair, dirt, dust, bubbles and pinholes, cracking and dings. This obviously caused delays in completing clients orders. Using the press with the over laminate has solved all of those problems. Immediately after the print comes off the printer it goes into the press. Now, large orders just get stacked in a pile until I can stretch them.

As to the quality of the laminate - I like it, my clients like it and their customers like it. Many of these prints ride around from show to show in the back of a truck so they need to be rugged and washable. The laminate affords this better than the liquid products do. I'd be happy to send you a sample so you can make your own comparisons, just PM me.      - Jim
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Mike Guilbault
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« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2013, 12:44:44 PM »
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No worries on the hijack Jim... all good information!
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Mark Lindquist
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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2013, 09:59:32 PM »
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As to the quality of the laminate - I like it, my clients like it and their customers like it. Many of these prints ride around from show to show in the back of a truck so they need to be rugged and washable. The laminate affords this better than the liquid products do. I'd be happy to send you a sample so you can make your own comparisons, just PM me.      - Jim

I understand your points Jim, and I would be interested in seeing a sample.  One of the times I saw a sample of an over-laminate was a fellow photographer who was just thrilled about having created a new concept for portfolios, whereby the portfolio was over-laminated and would withstand much abuse and could be carried in a briefcase-like container.  The prints had a kind of flocking on the backs, and the fronts were strongly over-coated, and looked muddy muddy muddy, thick translucent.  He was so proud of them and was attempting to sell a "revolutionary new product" but they looked like restaurant place-mats to those of us doing careful prints.  This is an extreme example and resides at the far end of the over-laminating spectrum, but I always think that the compromises which do in fact offer a great deal of protection do cause the aesthetics to suffer equally proportionately.  Again, I will take you up on your offer, as I have once before with someone who also sang the praises of laminates, but honestly, it would have to be some kind of miracle for me to "convert" (or resort) to that approach.  Again, really, please, no offense meant, it's just my personal preference, and I'm glad you have found something that works for you.  I'll PM you for a sample if your offer is still good after showing my teeth a little, LOL.
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rgvsdigitalpimp
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2013, 11:14:09 PM »
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I use mirror edging for about 90% of my wraps.  Especially for a professional photographers prints.  I mean, to cut off 1.5" of the original image to create a true gallery wrap just doesn't make sense to me.  Especially when you have a long dress or faces towards the edge of the photo.  I use Perfect Resize Pro with Photoshop to make my extra 1.5" edged sides automatically.  When I choose mirror I choose to Add To New Layer so I can play with the edges as I like.  If there's faces or body parts towards the sides of the image I hate to see  a full mirror of someones arm going in the other direction (or head of someone flipped to wrap over the top edge).  So I'll blur the edges a little and then lower opacity some to kind of make it looks transparent.  Then I size up the image about an extra .12 to .20" to give me some wiggle room.  I don't worry about lining up perfect with the edges.  I let the edge of the photo kind of wrap to the side and worry about lining that up as much as possible.  It's a lot more forgiving to have a tiny misalignment on the side than on the edging.  Of course I've asked all my clients when they buy their first print about this method and if they prefer another and they are all ok with it so I won't try to fix what isn't broken.  Since I use the Pitbull Stretcher (now BC's Stretch Relief) pliers which pulls pretty hard, I'll line up one of the sides with a little more of the edge coming around and staple that side first.  Then when I flip to stretch other side, I grab with tool and give a tight pull while holding the canvas up at an angle from the table surface so I can actually see the edge come across the side and judge from there how much to pull.  If I did this while trying to match every edge perfectly I'd go crazy.  I'll send pics of the process if ya wanna see my method. 

About the heat press, does this give it a shiny look?  I have one or two clients saying they want less shine (but if I spray less Clearshield Satin) then it's more susceptible to scuffs.  I guess I'm going to try the Matte coating.  I notice when I give 2 coats of nice amount of spray it protects real nice but shines more.  Is the heat press a shiny finish?
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jferrari
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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2013, 07:28:21 AM »
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@Mark - I agree with you 100% about the thick, plasticky, placemat-looking product. Definitely not a solution for me. As I said earlier I print only on canvas and find that it actually works for that application. I'd love to send you a sample just to see what you think, PM me.

@rgvsdigitlpimp - All of my clients want the look of canvas. They want to see the weave and texture. We believe that there is a place for gloss in the art world - just not on canvas. So all of my pieces are a satin/matte finish which has just a light sheen to it but not enough to be an issue for viewing at an angle.     - Jim
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rgvsdigitalpimp
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« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2013, 08:51:11 AM »
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JF, what heat press do you currently use? 
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jferrari
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« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2013, 10:15:33 AM »
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I bought a used Bienfang 4468H which is the same as Seal or VacuSeal.
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Mike Sellers
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« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2013, 10:34:56 AM »
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Here is a Pro Seal 44 on ebay-360732315700- how well would it work for laminating canvas prints?
Mike
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