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Author Topic: Got the Olympus E-M1, First Thoughts  (Read 8404 times)
fike
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« on: October 31, 2013, 09:23:39 AM »
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This is the first time I have bought a new camera body without any expectation for substantive improved image quality. In some ways, this is me maturing as a photographer and in other ways it is the market maturing. I bought it exclusively for ergonomic improvements, and it hasn't disappointed me.

Here are some disjointed thoughts about this camera:
  • It's bigger than my E-M5, but not in a way that has much real-world impact on carrying it.  I am realizing that the real important size attribute with compact system cameras is the size of the lenses, so I am still happy with the compactness
  • The focus points are much smaller.  This was a real problem for me on the E-M5.
  • Wow, the configurability of the buttons is excellent.  I never need to dive into a menu to do anything common.  Bracketing, ISO, EV, focus zoom, whatever.
  • Focus peaking is more amazing than I imagined.
  • Hand grip is too short for my hand.  My ring finger falls off the bottom. I think my RRS plate will fix the problem. This wasn't a problem with the E-M5.
  • It isn't as handsome as the E-M5 was. that won't stop me from loving it, but it is something I notice.
  • They fixed the bug that prevents you from using the EVF view mode that moved the shot data off the image area into a blue bar at the bottom.
  • Manual zoomed focus with the EVF works better
  • Lack of ACR RAW support is irritating. I wonder when Adobe will get full support. Olympus's RAW software is poor.
  • I still don't use the automatic eye-sensor for switching from LCD to EVF.  I leave it in EVF mode and only rarely change it to LCD.
  • Remote control with WiFi and my iPhone works really well.  I prefer this to an RF remote.
  • Bracketing is fixed.  You can easily fire-off two, three, or five shot bracketed sets. On the E-M5 you had to shoot them individually with multiple button presses.
  • Embedded intervalometer is nice.  There is no excuse for any DSLR not to have one built-in.
  • MFT lens focus is faster than the E-M5
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2013, 11:04:32 AM »
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Fike,

    thanks for the comments, and I look forward to more. Two in particular stand out to me:
  • Wow, the configurability of the buttons is excellent.  I never need to dive into a menu to do anything common.  Bracketing, ISO, EV, focus zoom, whatever.
  • Manual zoomed focus with the EVF works better

The first is nice: Olympus has been criticized for its comprehensive but deep menus, so it is great if one can configure the camera to avoid most menu-diving.

On the second, can you say more about how the MF is improved? I am still waiting for "picture-in-picture" focusing zoom, that still shows the unmagnified image around the edges of the composition.
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bcooter
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2013, 11:06:56 AM »
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Hey Marc,

A few questions if you don't mind.

Battery.  Does it use the same as the em-5?

Track focus.  Will it track focus with mft lenses and keep in focus?   does the viewfinder black out in high fps?

Menu.   You said you didn't have to dive in, but I've found the em-5 is a mess (to put it politely).  Do you have to go into the menu to set wysiwyg?

Right Angle Grip.  Do you have it, and/or is it out and do you know when?

ISO.  How high can you go without the painterly edges?  Have you tried past 1000?

_____________

A tip.  Download Iridient Developer.   It's not the easiest interface but the absolute best processing on the planet, just smokes lightroom for final output.

You have to go Camera adv:  tab and press edit.  You can build your own film by working on the properties of the three rgb channels.

Very good software and they update very quickly.

Thanks

BC

This is the first time I have bought a new camera body without any expectation for substantive improved image quality. In some ways, this is me maturing as a photographer and in other ways it is the market maturing. I bought it exclusively for ergonomic improvements, and it hasn't disappointed me.

Here are some disjointed thoughts about this camera:
  • It's bigger than my E-M5, but not in a way that has much real-world impact on carrying it.  I am realizing that the real important size attribute with compact system cameras is the size of the lenses, so I am still happy with the compactness
  • The focus points are much smaller.  This was a real problem for me on the E-M5.
  • Wow, the configurability of the buttons is excellent.  I never need to dive into a menu to do anything common.  Bracketing, ISO, EV, focus zoom, whatever.
  • Focus peaking is more amazing than I imagined.
  • Hand grip is too short for my hand.  My ring finger falls off the bottom. I think my RRS plate will fix the problem. This wasn't a problem with the E-M5.
  • It isn't as handsome as the E-M5 was. that won't stop me from loving it, but it is something I notice.
  • They fixed the bug that prevents you from using the EVF view mode that moved the shot data off the image area into a blue bar at the bottom.
  • Manual zoomed focus with the EVF works better
  • Lack of ACR RAW support is irritating. I wonder when Adobe will get full support. Olympus's RAW software is poor.
  • I still don't use the automatic eye-sensor for switching from LCD to EVF.  I leave it in EVF mode and only rarely change it to LCD.
  • Remote control with WiFi and my iPhone works really well.  I prefer this to an RF remote.
  • Bracketing is fixed.  You can easily fire-off two, three, or five shot bracketed sets. On the E-M5 you had to shoot them individually with multiple button presses.
  • Embedded intervalometer is nice.  There is no excuse for any DSLR not to have one built-in.
  • MFT lens focus is faster than the E-M5
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fike
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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2013, 12:55:33 PM »
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Fike,

    thanks for the comments, and I look forward to more. Two in particular stand out to me:
The first is nice: Olympus has been criticized for its comprehensive but deep menus, so it is great if one can configure the camera to avoid most menu-diving.

On the second, can you say more about how the MF is improved? I am still waiting for "picture-in-picture" focusing zoom, that still shows the unmagnified image around the edges of the composition.

It doesn't have picture in picture zoom feature...at least that I have noticed.
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2013, 01:00:08 PM »
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Hey Marc,

A few questions if you don't mind.

Battery.  Does it use the same as the em-5?
Yes
Quote
Track focus.  Will it track focus with mft lenses and keep in focus?   does the viewfinder black out in high fps?
It does track focus, but I haven't exercised this much yet.  At high-speed, it does black out.  At medium-speed (I think 6fps) it shows an image between shots and refocuses between shots.
Quote
Menu.   You said you didn't have to dive in, but I've found the em-5 is a mess (to put it politely).  Do you have to go into the menu to set wysiwyg?
I am not sure what you mean by set "what-you-see-is-what-you-get" in this context.
Quote
Right Angle Grip.  Do you have it, and/or is it out and do you know when?
Don't have it. I don't know.
Quote
ISO.  How high can you go without the painterly edges?  Have you tried past 1000?
I haven't worked extensively yet, but I could go to 1600 with the E-M5 without getting too painterly an image effect.  There was some "grain" at that ISO, but not a distracting amount. I expect this one to be similar.

Quote
_____________

A tip.  Download Iridient Developer.   It's not the easiest interface but the absolute best processing on the planet, just smokes lightroom for final output.

You have to go Camera adv:  tab and press edit.  You can build your own film by working on the properties of the three rgb channels.

Very good software and they update very quickly.
I'll have to check that out.  Thanks for the tip.
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 01:45:25 PM »
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I am still waiting for "picture-in-picture" focusing zoom, that still shows the unmagnified image around the edges of the composition.

The Panasonic GX7 does this...great for getting the framing & focus right simultaneously with manual focus lenses.

Digression: I got the GX7 intending to use it as a (jacket) pocket camera with Panasonic's 20mm lens, but once I tried some smaller SLR lenses with it via a Metabones SpeedBooster that intention went out the window. Now I have it matched with an 18/35/85mm Y/C Zeiss set (approx. 26/50/120mm, with the SpeedBooster, in 35mm-format terms), set up for b&w with simulated yellow or red filters. Photos look great right outta the camera. The 35 & 85 lenses are the small & light f/2.8 versions (f/2 with the SpeedBooster), and all three lenses balance & handle very nicely with the camera. Video quality is decent enough too, better than with the Olympus cameras anyway. The Blackmagic PCC is sulking in a corner somewhere, feeling usurped.

-Dave-
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leuallen
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 04:28:50 PM »
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Do you have to go into the menu to set wysiwyg?

Yes, it is not assignable to any button as I can see. My solution, not the best but sort of works: Two exactly the same Mysets good for 90% of the way I generally use the camera, except for the Wysiwyg change. Assigned one to IAuto and the other to Art on the mode dial. Problem, if I change anything like ISO, white balance, burst rate, etc I loose the changes on the Myset change and must reset them. This rarely happens in practice, except for ISO, so it does not bother me much. I can live with it. But would like to be able to assign it to a button.

Quote
Track focus.  Will it track focus with mft lenses and keep in focus?

I have only tried tracking with the 4/3 50-200 lens. Since I have no experience with other than mft cameras in the digital realm, I can't really compare it to anything. But I did not like it. Shooting dirt track cars did not work well for me. In 4/3 phase mode, the area of active focus is somewhat limited to the central viewfinder area, so I kept loosing the cars focus. With mft lenses it might well be a different story as the focus area is almost the full viewfinder but I have not tried it.

After three weeks shooting the cars on Sundays, I found what works last Sunday. Very sharp results, in focus. Just use single AFP and aim it at the damn car if you can see it through the dust. It got focus fast enough in this case. Again, with 4/3 lens, phase focus. What did not work was my usual prefocus technique. I usually focus on a spot on the track where I know there will be action and hit it when the cars reach that point. The camera would not focus on the track as there was low contrast and no vertical lines. You need vertical lines for the phase focusing as the sensors are not cross type, only laid out on a horizonal line.

Quote
Right Angle Grip.  Do you have it, and/or is it out and do you know when?

If you mean the battery grip, it is out and I have it. Nice. Very useful for the larger lenses like the 50-200, not required so much for average lenses. Of course it does double the battery life if that is what you need.

I also got the RRS L-bracket for use without the battery grip. Disappointed as you cannot easily use the remote camera release with it attached. Of course this is a tripod accessory and as such one wants to use the remote. The GH3 got this right as the remote socket is on the right and free and clear.

I don't do much high ISO so can't comment.

Generally, I like the camera but wish Oly would set up their focus system like the GH3. Got the Pana GX7 at the same time and really love that camera.

Larry
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bcooter
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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 05:37:03 PM »
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Thanks guys.

Dave you seem to have more fun than me.

I think the em5 is good, wish it had the intuitive controls of the pana gh3, wish the gh3 shot stills as well as my em-5.

For people new to evfs, the pana gh3 just makes me forget it's electronic, except it isn't as detailed as the olympus, but the camera is so easy to work.

The Olympus at least my em5 is a very good camera, but It's a camera you have to get used to especially all it's little quirks.  The more I get used to it, the more I like it.

The em5 doesn't really track focus well, though has the fastest single focus I've seen.  In fact I can continuous focus sort of just by refocusing as you shoot.

The only suggestion I'd make with olympus is stop being so weird.  Great looking camera, great images, great lenses that are fast and sharp, but it has so many strange little things going on it's like they planned it to be difficult, but once your use to them it's fine.

Anyway, thanks for the information.

BTW:  Dave do you find the GX7 still quality better than the gh3?

Thanks

BC
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2013, 06:59:40 PM »
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Right Angle Grip.

battery grip :





RRS base plate (w/o L attachment)



« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 07:01:22 PM by Vladimirovich » Logged
bcooter
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2013, 09:39:45 PM »
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Does anybody that has the em-5 know or believe that the em-1 produces a better file?

With all it's quirks everytime I use the em-5 I smile, it's built so beautifully and just feels right, but I'd like 20% better image quality and better track focusing.

So what's the real verdict?

BC
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« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2013, 07:36:02 AM »
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Does anybody that has the em-5 know or believe that the em-1 produces a better file?

With all it's quirks everytime I use the em-5 I smile, it's built so beautifully and just feels right, but I'd like 20% better image quality and better track focusing.

So what's the real verdict?

BC

Not noticeably different.  Some IQ improvement might be had with the in-body lens corrections that are being done on Olympus MFT lenses as well as removal of chromatic abberations (which is a nice bonus).  I haven't experimented enough to say much first hand, but DXO showed an increase in their DXOmark from 71 to 73 on the E-M1.  That is hardly noticeable.  I have seen some samples that suggest less banding in shadows when pushing shadows very hard. It will take a while for me to confirm that sort of thing.
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« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2013, 07:46:05 AM »
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...

I have only tried tracking with the 4/3 50-200 lens. Since I have no experience with other than mft cameras in the digital realm, I can't really compare it to anything. But I did not like it. Shooting dirt track cars did not work well for me. In 4/3 phase mode, the area of active focus is somewhat limited to the central viewfinder area, so I kept loosing the cars focus. With mft lenses it might well be a different story as the focus area is almost the full viewfinder but I have not tried it.

After three weeks shooting the cars on Sundays, I found what works last Sunday. Very sharp results, in focus. Just use single AFP and aim it at the damn car if you can see it through the dust. It got focus fast enough in this case. Again, with 4/3 lens, phase focus. What did not work was my usual prefocus technique. I usually focus on a spot on the track where I know there will be action and hit it when the cars reach that point. The camera would not focus on the track as there was low contrast and no vertical lines. You need vertical lines for the phase focusing as the sensors are not cross type, only laid out on a horizonal line.
...
Larry


I've considered renting that lens to see how it works as a light-weight and stopgap measure for shooting wildlife.  My expectations have been low.  First, 200mm (even on MFT with 2x crop) isn't long enough for birds and critters.  Second, I was concerned that the focus wouldn't be fast enough.  Sounds like you are verifying that.  I also considered adding a four thirds 1.4x teleconverter to it.  That would probably make focus worse and TWO adapters in the image path seems a bit crazy.

On the other hand, I shoot wildlife with a Canon 7D and a 100-400 lens that I generally restrict to the center focus point for anything moving.  I just don't find automatic tracking works so I track with my hand and eye.

I tried my 75-300 II the other evening and the results remain disappointing. I need to go out in some good light to really determine whether this lens can be sharp enough for me. I haven't gotten anything sharp out of that lens beyond 200mm or maybe 250mm.  The lens is also really slow on the telephoto end.  (and please, don't anyone tell me that sharpness is overrated.  For wildlife, sharpness is what I want.)

MFT needs a fixed-focal length MFT 300mm f/4.  Canon has a really good 300mm f/4 that remains compact (400 f/5.6 too), so I know with the smaller image circle of MFT that they can do it, but Olympus and Panasonic just haven't made it a priority yet. 
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« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2013, 10:27:45 AM »
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I've considered renting that lens to see how it works as a light-weight and stopgap measure for shooting wildlife.  My expectations have been low.  First, 200mm (even on MFT with 2x crop) isn't long enough for birds and critters.  Second, I was concerned that the focus wouldn't be fast enough.  Sounds like you are verifying that.  I also considered adding a four thirds 1.4x teleconverter to it.  That would probably make focus worse and TWO adapters in the image path seems a bit crazy.

On the other hand, I shoot wildlife with a Canon 7D and a 100-400 lens that I generally restrict to the center focus point for anything moving.  I just don't find automatic tracking works so I track with my hand and eye.

I tried my 75-300 II the other evening and the results remain disappointing. I need to go out in some good light to really determine whether this lens can be sharp enough for me. I haven't gotten anything sharp out of that lens beyond 200mm or maybe 250mm.  The lens is also really slow on the telephoto end.  (and please, don't anyone tell me that sharpness is overrated.  For wildlife, sharpness is what I want.)

MFT needs a fixed-focal length MFT 300mm f/4.  Canon has a really good 300mm f/4 that remains compact (400 f/5.6 too), so I know with the smaller image circle of MFT that they can do it, but Olympus and Panasonic just haven't made it a priority yet. 

Sigma made (so you can find used) the following for 43 :

    Sigma APO 50500mm F46.3 EX DG HSM
    Sigma APO 70-200mm F2.8 II EX DG Macro HSM  (consider w/ 1.4x converter ?)
    Sigma APO 135400mm F4.55.6 DG
    Sigma APO 300800mm F5.6 EX DG HSM
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« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2013, 03:36:21 PM »
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I've considered renting that lens to see how it works as a light-weight and stopgap measure for shooting wildlife.  My expectations have been low.  First, 200mm (even on MFT with 2x crop) isn't long enough for birds and critters.  Second, I was concerned that the focus wouldn't be fast enough.  Sounds like you are verifying that.  I also considered adding a four thirds 1.4x teleconverter to it.  That would probably make focus worse and TWO adapters in the image path seems a bit crazy.

Just to note: the Four-Thirds to m43 adapter is just a tube with electrical contacts. No optics. The 50-200mm + 1.4x TC works very well optically on the E-M1. I have to say I'm seriously impressed with this lens. Focusing is okay speed-wise...not as fast as with m43 lenses in lower-light conditions. But it is repeatably accurate given the constraints of non-cross-type PD-AF points. I haven't tried tracking with this setup. For birds & critters I do understand the need for a speedy 300mm...

-Dave-
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« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2013, 03:40:31 PM »
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Just to note: the Four-Thirds to m43 adapter is just a tube with electrical contacts. No optics. The 50-200mm + 1.4x TC works very well optically on the E-M1. I have to say I'm seriously impressed with this lens. Focusing is okay speed-wise...not as fast as with m43 lenses in lower-light conditions. But it is repeatably accurate given the constraints of non-cross-type PD-AF points. I haven't tried tracking with this setup. For birds & critters I do understand the need for a speedy 300mm...

-Dave-

Oh Wow! You have the E-M1 with the 50-200 and 1.4x teleconverter?  I would love to see some image samples if you have them.  I can rent a 50-200, but I am not sure I can rent the converter.
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« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2013, 03:55:41 PM »
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Dave you seem to have more fun than me.

Hah, I'm just easily amused.   Wink  That along with the Surgeon General's recommended daily allotment of the beverage referenced in the attached photo. (Pic taken with the E-M1 & Oly 50-200mm lens while testing off-center PD-AF focus points under relatively dim tungsten light.)

Quote
BTW:  Dave do you find the GX7 still quality better than the gh3?

I don't have the GH3 so can't comment on that one. Compared with the E-M5/E-M1 the GX7 is very similar. I think Panasonic does less aggressive NR at higher ISOs than Olympus, even in the RAW data. I prefer the lighter touch myself. But the files from all three cameras look great to me.

-Dave-
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« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2013, 04:07:44 PM »
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Oh Wow! You have the E-M1 with the 50-200 and 1.4x teleconverter?  I would love to see some image samples if you have them.  I can rent a 50-200, but I am not sure I can rent the converter.

I plan to spend some time at my favorite local park with the E-M1 & 50-200mm this weekend, weather permitting. I'll take along the TC too. This will hopefully yield some decent sample pics. Right now all I've got are photos of tequlia bottles, guitar effects pedals, book covers and Mulder & Scully action figures.   Cheesy

-Dave-
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« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2013, 10:56:58 PM »
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Don't get me wrong. I love this lens (except for the size!).

The attached photo seems plenty sharp to me. The focus problems were primarily due to user inexperience the first couple of weeks. After familiarity, I am much more comfortable with it. It is plenty fast in good light with a subject that has some contrast. The focus point in this photo was probably a little to the right and a little below center, so that I can get the nose of the car. The focus was fast enough so that I just mashed the shutter when the car was in frame. Of course the lens was already focused in that general area so that it did not have to hunt much. 200mm, 5.6, 1/640, ISO 200. That being said, the contrast focusing seems faster.

I have the 1.4TC but have not used it yet, no need. From what I have read, Olympus optimized the TC for a subset of their HG lenses, this being one. By all reports the sharpness loss is minimal, at least for the 1.4. Of course the proof is in the tasting.

Larry
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2013, 01:22:16 AM »
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The weather was crap this weekend except for a brief period late Sunday, so I didn't go on my planned nature walk. But I took some photos anyway. Given LuLa's constraints on file size & number of pics per post, here are some pics taken with the Oly E-M1 and Four-Thirds 50200mm lens, most of 'em also with the Oly 1.4x tele-converter attached.

The first pic is of the camera & lens themselves.

The second pic was taken in my backyard Sunday late afternoon, a fast-reaction grab of a plane passing overhead. 283mm (this is what the camera reports as the longest focal length with the TC attached), f/4.9 (wide open), 1/1000th sec, ISO 200. Cropped to 3:2 aspect ratio.

The third pic was taken Saturday just after sunset from in front of my house. 200mm, f/3.5, 1/320th sec., ISO 1250. Uncropped.

The fourth pic is a full-res crop of the third pic's (off center) point-of-focus.

More pics in the following two posts.

-Dave-
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2013, 01:43:21 AM »
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The first pic is from Saturday eve, a closeup of an old Dodge in a neighbor's driveway. 200mm, f/3.5, 1/320th sec., ISO 16000. Uncropped.

The second pic is a full-res crop of the first pic's point-of-focus.

The third pic is from Sunday late afternoon, a view from my backyard (lotsa churches in my neighborhood). 283mm (lens + TC), f/4.9, 1/400th sec., ISO 250. Uncropped.

The fourth pic is a full-res crop of the third pic's point-of-focus, in this case a streetsign located half-a-mile away. You can see a bit of atmospheric distortion in this one.

I should note that all of these photos were taken handheld. In most cases I took three shots in quick succession, per my usual D-SLR technique, and then chose the "best" one. This mostly proved to be unnecessary...focus was accurate and consistent shot-to-shot.

-Dave-
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