Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Leica S2 (non-P) vs the competition currently  (Read 6359 times)
KLaban
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1703



WWW
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2013, 04:10:54 AM »
ReplyReply

As someone who regularly shoots using shutter speeds in the range of 1/15 sec to 8 sec I wouldn't even consider the Leica S2. I know of landscape photographers who have given up on the S2 for landscape and other work due to vibration and it's no better when using the leaf shutter lenses.

The following is the firing sequence when using the leaf shutter lenses.

1.Shutter released
2.Mirror goes up
3.Aperture diaphragm closes down to desired f-stop
4.Focal plane shutter opens
5.Camera starts exposure electronically
6.Central shutter closes
7.Aperture opens
8.Focal plane shutter closes
9.Central shutter opens
10.Mirror returns

A recipe for vibration. Such a pity the leaf shutter can't be used in isolation.

Used with big light in the studio, no problem - apart from tethering - but landscape, nah.
Logged

Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12213


« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2013, 04:23:09 AM »
ReplyReply

FWIW, I think your friend would be best off using film.

I didn't find digital printing difficult per se, I found computers difficult. However, as I had spent my career with shooting, printing and transparency work I felt that to be a distinct advantage in that I came to the digital party with a pretty good idea of what a print should/could look like regarding attainable quality.

However, though the production of a pleasing monitor image is relatively simple (if mechanical), getting that same quality onto digital printing papers isn't so straigthforward. Personally, I find that nothing I've seen since matches the absolute delight of a well-glazed double-weight sheet of Kodak balck/white. If your pal wet-prints on matte papers, then I'd say the argument is reversed, and digital paper works much better.

In his seventies, I'd advise staying happy and avoiding unnecessary frustration, and digital photography and computers provide enough of that to make you lose the few strands of hair you might have left. Far better to wander into the darkroom with one shot in mind, work with it and retire happy with your labours than spend hours hunched in front of a monitor playing with a hundred also-ran images. Sadly, that's the way the maths seems to run.

Rob C
Logged

ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 7888


WWW
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2013, 04:52:13 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

So what equipment would you suggest from your stand of view?

I am shooting an Hasselbald 555 ELD and I would say MLU is mandatory, but I may be wrong.

Best regards
Erik



As someone who regularly shoots using shutter speeds in the range of 1/15 sec to 8 sec I wouldn't even consider the Leica S2. I know of landscape photographers who have given up on the S2 for landscape and other work due to vibration and it's no better when using the leaf shutter lenses.

The following is the firing sequence when using the leaf shutter lenses.

1.Shutter released
2.Mirror goes up
3.Aperture diaphragm closes down to desired f-stop
4.Focal plane shutter opens
5.Camera starts exposure electronically
6.Central shutter closes
7.Aperture opens
8.Focal plane shutter closes
9.Central shutter opens
10.Mirror returns

A recipe for vibration. Such a pity the leaf shutter can't be used in isolation.

Used with big light in the studio, no problem - apart from tethering - but landscape, nah.

Logged

Christoph C. Feldhaim
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2509


There is no rule! No - wait ...


« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2013, 05:00:50 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

So what equipment would you suggest from your stand of view?

I am shooting an Hasselbald 555 ELD and I would say MLU is mandatory, but I may be wrong.

Best regards
Erik





Film + Good IQ + lightweight = Mamiya 7 II
Logged

KLaban
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1703



WWW
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2013, 05:54:36 AM »
ReplyReply

So what equipment would you suggest from your stand of view?

If we're talking medium format, whether film or digital, then I would go the leaf shutter lens system route.

And yes, MU is mandatory.
Logged

jerome_m
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 656


« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2013, 07:08:14 AM »
ReplyReply

As someone who regularly shoots using shutter speeds in the range of 1/15 sec to 8 sec I wouldn't even consider the Leica S2. I know of landscape photographers who have given up on the S2 for landscape and other work due to vibration and it's no better when using the leaf shutter lenses.

The following is the firing sequence when using the leaf shutter lenses.

1.Shutter released
2.Mirror goes up
3.Aperture diaphragm closes down to desired f-stop
4.Focal plane shutter opens
5.Camera starts exposure electronically
6.Central shutter closes
7.Aperture opens
8.Focal plane shutter closes
9.Central shutter opens
10.Mirror returns

A recipe for vibration. Such a pity the leaf shutter can't be used in isolation.

Used with big light in the studio, no problem - apart from tethering - but landscape, nah.


One can't use mirror lockup on the S2? That seems like a silly omission indeed. On the Hasselblad H cameras, it goes this way:

1.Mirror lockup pressed
2.Mirror goes up
3.Aperture diaphragm closes down to desired f-stop
4.Focal plane shutter opens

5a: press release button
5.Camera opens central shutter and starts exposure
6.Central shutter closes and exposure stops

6a: one can repeat 5a, 6 and 7 as often as one wants for a series of pictures, the only thing that move is the central shutter and that does not add noticeable vibration.

6b: press mirror lock up button to release mirror
7.Aperture opens
8.Focal plane shutter closes (maybe 8 happens before 7, I don't know)
9.Central shutter opens
10.Mirror returns
Logged
craigrudlin
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 55


« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2013, 08:03:57 AM »
ReplyReply

I use a Leica S2 for landscape and similar work.  I was in Iceland this past summer and routinely
took images up to 120 sec. I took many in the 1/30th to several second range of exposure.
I did NOT have any issues with vibration despite fierce wind on at least
one day.  I didn't even use MU routinely.  I have made 40x60 inch prints from these images and
stitched panos up to 96 inches long with no issues regarding focus, etc.  I do NOT have leaf shutter lenses.

I do have a very sturdy gitzo tripod.

This is not to say the person asking the original question should go digital vs. film, only that I politely
disagree with the person who stated you couldn't use the S2 effectively.  It definitely works for me.

I have the images posted on my website, although of course, being the web, they are merely reduced jps.
www.rudlinfineart.com->galleries->portfolios->iceland


Logged
KLaban
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1703



WWW
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2013, 08:23:02 AM »
ReplyReply

A trawl through the archives of sites such as GetDPI will find reports of vibration issues using the S2 and MFD focal plane systems in general when using slow shutter speeds.

Given the choice I'd always go for a leaf shutter system.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 08:30:52 AM by KLaban » Logged

DanielStone
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 577


« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2013, 08:49:37 AM »
ReplyReply

thanks, I'll show him this thread and we'll see what happens Smiley

I know that for ME, if I were to be looking to buy into a system myself, I'd go with the Hy6 system. Pricey, but from the comparisons I've seen of the glass, probably the best thing short of a tech camera/lenses.

-Dan
Logged
peterv
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 87


« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2013, 09:29:58 AM »
ReplyReply

Of course there is the mirror lock up option on the Leica S2 and S.

On GetDPI there's also a lot of praise how well damped the mirror is. And as an owner of an S2P I can confirm this. Sure, if one wants to use all reolution a MF camera can give, one has to use good techique, which means ML, tripod, high shutter speed.

Klaban, you make it sound as if the S shutter is somehow faulty, which is not the case. The CS is there for high speed flash sync, up to 1/1000.
Logged
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 7888


WWW
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2013, 10:06:06 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

What is your take on the Hartblei DCam and Alpa FPS? Both use the Mamiya shutter but both are said to be very well dampened.

Best regards
Erik


A trawl through the archives of sites such as GetDPI will find reports of vibration issues using the S2 and MFD focal plane systems in general when using slow shutter speeds.

Given the choice I'd always go for a leaf shutter system.
Logged

KLaban
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1703



WWW
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2013, 10:19:40 AM »
ReplyReply

Sure, if one wants to use all reolution a MF camera can give, one has to use good techique, which means ML, tripod, high shutter speed.

Or one could use a leaf shutter system at any speed.
Logged

KLaban
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1703



WWW
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2013, 10:23:47 AM »
ReplyReply

What is your take on the Hartblei DCam and Alpa FPS? Both use the Mamiya shutter but both are said to be very well dampened.

Erik, all I can say is I've only heard good things about the FPS.
Logged

ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 7888


WWW
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2013, 10:29:14 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

I don't think you can have it all. Myself I shoot medium to small apertures, say f/8 on the best lenses and f/11 - f/16 on the less good ones. When needing DoF I stop down a bit. ISO is kept at 50, so shutter time is the main variable and it tends to be on the long side.

MF and high shutter speeds don't mix well, unless using flash.

Best regards
Erik


Or one could use a leaf shutter system at any speed.
Logged

KLaban
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1703



WWW
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2013, 10:35:28 AM »
ReplyReply

The CS is there for high speed flash sync, up to 1/1000.

Indeed it is, but it's such a pity that those wonderful CS lenses can't be used in isolation from the focal plane shutter.

Doug Peterson has suggested that the new Phamiya replacement camera for the DF will probably allow leaf shutter lenses to be used in this way. This is as it should be. More power to their elbow!
Logged

KLaban
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1703



WWW
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2013, 10:37:32 AM »
ReplyReply

MF and high shutter speeds don't mix well, unless using flash.

I never use high shutter speeds when using MF.
Logged

gerald.d
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 396


« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2013, 11:12:40 AM »
ReplyReply

I never use high shutter speeds when using MF.

Interesting - I've not seen this mentioned before.

Obviously in many scenarios the shutter speed is a result of a desire to shoot at base ISO (often low in MF) and optimum lens aperture (typically around the f/8 mark), which means even with lots of light, you're going to end up with a slow shutter speed. Even "sunny 16" with an IQ180 and f/8 is only 1/140th of a second.

But surely there are scenarios where it's preferable to compromise a bit on ideal ISO and aperture in order to get the shot with MF, rather than using an alternative format?

Would you mind explaining the rationale behind your statement?

Kind regards,

Gerald.
Logged
KLaban
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1703



WWW
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2013, 11:43:11 AM »
ReplyReply

But surely there are scenarios where it's preferable to compromise a bit on ideal ISO and aperture in order to get the shot with MF, rather than using an alternative format?

Would you mind explaining the rationale behind your statement?

Known subject matter in known conditions.

Different formats/cameras for differing work.

Logged

gerald.d
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 396


« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2013, 11:53:45 AM »
ReplyReply

Known subject matter in known conditions.

Different formats/cameras for differing work.



Not quite sure I follow.

If it were necessary to use a shutter speed of 1/1000th of a second for a particular shot, and you could expose correctly with ISO100 and f/5.6, you'd choose not to use MF?
Logged
KLaban
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1703



WWW
« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2013, 12:12:26 PM »
ReplyReply

Not quite sure I follow.

If it were necessary to use a shutter speed of 1/1000th of a second for a particular shot, and you could expose correctly with ISO100 and f/5.6, you'd choose not to use MF?


I know my subject matter and conditions. It would never be necessary.
Logged

Pages: « 1 [2] 3 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad