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Author Topic: Leica S2 (non-P) vs the competition currently  (Read 6604 times)
eronald
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« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2013, 12:44:34 PM »
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Indeed it is, but it's such a pity that those wonderful CS lenses can't be used in isolation from the focal plane shutter.

Doug Peterson has suggested that the new Phamiya replacement camera for the DF will probably allow leaf shutter lenses to be used in this way. This is as it should be. More power to their elbow!

Yes, this imaginary camera will be soooooo good. Imagination is always better than reality.
Will Doug go on the record with features and a release date? No? How strange.

Edmund
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 01:00:32 PM by eronald » Logged
KLaban
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« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2013, 12:55:40 PM »
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When I got my P45+ I too was told about marvelous camera abilities I would be able to see in the future. 

Don't buy promises.
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eronald
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« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2013, 01:01:22 PM »
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Don't buy promises.

sleep with dogs, get fleas Smiley

Edmund
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peterv
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« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2013, 02:17:45 PM »
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Or one could use a leaf shutter system at any speed.

Which MF camera would that be?
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2013, 02:28:20 PM »
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Hi,

I am with Keith (?) here. I feel that DSLRs are better at high ISO than MFD and I tend to shoot minimum ISO also my DSLRs. For me, MFDB is on tripod, careful manual focus, minimum ISO, medium aperture, MLU and cable release. Otherwise DSLR. But, I rather use DSLR on tripod, manual focus (LV at 11X), minimum ISO, medium aperture, MLU and self timer/cable release.Under those ideal conditions the MFD system gives sharper images. Better images? That is another discussion, but I obviously think MFD has it merits, else I would not use it.

Best regards
Erik


Interesting - I've not seen this mentioned before.

Obviously in many scenarios the shutter speed is a result of a desire to shoot at base ISO (often low in MF) and optimum lens aperture (typically around the f/8 mark), which means even with lots of light, you're going to end up with a slow shutter speed. Even "sunny 16" with an IQ180 and f/8 is only 1/140th of a second.

But surely there are scenarios where it's preferable to compromise a bit on ideal ISO and aperture in order to get the shot with MF, rather than using an alternative format?

Would you mind explaining the rationale behind your statement?

Kind regards,

Gerald.
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KLaban
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« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2013, 02:32:59 PM »
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Which MF camera would that be?

Leica S PEE D
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2013, 03:09:24 PM »
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Difficult to predict the future is…



Yes, this imaginary camera will be soooooo good. Imagination is always better than reality.
Will Doug go on the record with features and a release date? No? How strange.

Edmund
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eronald
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« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2013, 08:15:05 PM »
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May the farce be with you

Difficult to predict the future is…



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gerald.d
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« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2013, 09:25:09 PM »
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Hi,

I am with Keith (?) here. I feel that DSLRs are better at high ISO than MFD and I tend to shoot minimum ISO also my DSLRs. For me, MFDB is on tripod, careful manual focus, minimum ISO, medium aperture, MLU and cable release. Otherwise DSLR. But, I rather use DSLR on tripod, manual focus (LV at 11X), minimum ISO, medium aperture, MLU and self timer/cable release.Under those ideal conditions the MFD system gives sharper images. Better images? That is another discussion, but I obviously think MFD has it merits, else I would not use it.

Best regards
Erik



I'd rate the IQ180 in a totally different league to any of the Canons I've used (7D, 5D II, 5D III, 1D4, 1Dx), even at ISO100.

As an example comparison, the pixel pitch on the IQ180 is pretty close to that of the 1DIV. So for a given focal length, if you need to stop any "action", or compensate for any possible movement or vibration of the camera, you're going to need the same shutter speed on both. I've recently shot with both IQ180 and 1Dx from a helicopter. There is simply no comparison whatsoever between the two. The IQ180 blows the 1Dx out of the water (or I guess, sky, in this case).

Obviously you need good light, but when if it's possible to pull the shot off with the IQ180, I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone - given the choice - would use a DSLR.

"MF and high shutter speeds don't mix well" is not the case in my (admittedly, limited) experience.

Kind regards,


Gerald.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #49 on: November 04, 2013, 12:07:16 AM »
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Hi,

I see your point.

Just adding that I have a P45+ on a Hasselblad 555ELD, the IQ180 on a technical camera would have a larger advantage.  My exposures times seem to vary widely in the 1/4 - 1/250 s range, so I am shooting in a region where mirror and shutter flap may be a problem. The Hasselblad is central shutter, but I have seen shutter induced vibration on my Pentax 67, so I know it can be a problem. Main main DSLR right now is the Sony Alpha 99.

Best regards
Erik



I'd rate the IQ180 in a totally different league to any of the Canons I've used (7D, 5D II, 5D III, 1D4, 1Dx), even at ISO100.

As an example comparison, the pixel pitch on the IQ180 is pretty close to that of the 1DIV. So for a given focal length, if you need to stop any "action", or compensate for any possible movement or vibration of the camera, you're going to need the same shutter speed on both. I've recently shot with both IQ180 and 1Dx from a helicopter. There is simply no comparison whatsoever between the two. The IQ180 blows the 1Dx out of the water (or I guess, sky, in this case).

Obviously you need good light, but when if it's possible to pull the shot off with the IQ180, I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone - given the choice - would use a DSLR.

"MF and high shutter speeds don't mix well" is not the case in my (admittedly, limited) experience.

Kind regards,


Gerald.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 01:31:34 AM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

Rob C
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« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2013, 02:54:29 AM »
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Hi,

I see your point.

Just adding that I have a P45+ on a Hasselblad 555ELD, the IQ180 on a technical camera would have a larger advantage.  My exposures times seem to vary widely in the 1/4 - 1/250 s range, so I am shooting in a region where mirror and shutter flap may be a problem. The Hasselblad is central shutter, but I have seen shutter induced vibration on my Pentax 67, so I know it can be a problem. Main main DSLR right now is the Sony Alpha 99.

Best regards
Erik






Main reason why I let my own 67ll go after about a year; it was beautiful to hold and look at, but even with MU the shutter was the killer. I loved the way it handled Velvia...  something about a big Kodak lightbox and transparencies can never be matched on a hot-damned monitor. Just so tactile-looking under one's Schneider lupe!

Downsides? Always used a tripod with the Pentax. It was why I bought it: hoped for best conditions results for stock...

Rob C
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2013, 03:06:27 AM »
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Hi,

I replaced my Manfrotto C55 with a Velbon Sherpa Pro and that did help a lot. So tripod matters, obviously.

I have a 67 projector, from Götschman, glorios images. Perhaps I should get a film magazine for the Hassy and shoot some film.


Best regards
Erik




Main reason why I let my own 67ll go after about a year; it was beautiful to hold and look at, but even with MU the shutter was the killer. I loved the way it handled Velvia...  something about a big Kodak lightbox and transparencies can never be matched on a hot-damned monitor. Just so tactile-looking under one's Schneider lupe!

Downsides? Always used a tripod with the Pentax. It was why I bought it: hoped for best conditions results for stock...

Rob C
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KLaban
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« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2013, 03:31:06 AM »
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Just to be clear, I have no concerns about using high shutter speeds when using MFD, but for my chosen subjects and conditions it just never happens.
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Rob C
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« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2013, 09:42:27 AM »
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Hi,

I replaced my Manfrotto C55 with a Velbon Sherpa Pro and that did help a lot. So tripod matters, obviously.

I have a 67 projector, from Götschman, glorios images. Perhaps I should get a film magazine for the Hassy and shoot some film.


Best regards
Erik




My Pentax lived permanently on top of a Gitzo G 410 that I can hardly lift! The two-way tilting head is just as heavy. All the mass and inertia you could wish for - an asistant would have been nice. Or a coolie (no offence intended, for the politically correctly sensitive in the LuLa woodpile).

Rob C
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KevinA
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« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2013, 09:54:04 AM »
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What the cost of switching to MF digital will be would buy an awful lot of scans. I've yet to see any digital look as nice as Portra film scanned.
If I did not have to shoot to pay the bills, my digital stuff would be on ebay and I would be happy to be off the camera/computer merry-go-round.
Imagine just having one camera to last you a lifetime, one enlarger to last a lifetime.
Stick with the film you know, life will be so much simpler.
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Kevin.
Rob C
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« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2013, 12:13:36 PM »
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What the cost of switching to MF digital will be would buy an awful lot of scans. I've yet to see any digital look as nice as Portra film scanned.
If I did not have to shoot to pay the bills, my digital stuff would be on ebay and I would be happy to be off the camera/computer merry-go-round.
Imagine just having one camera to last you a lifetime, one enlarger to last a lifetime.
Stick with the film you know, life will be so much simpler.




Amen!

Rob C
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RVB
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« Reply #56 on: November 18, 2013, 06:45:29 AM »
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http://static.timparkin.co.uk/static/tmp/cameratest-2/large.html



Amen!

Rob C
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KevinA
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« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2013, 04:05:54 PM »
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Wow sheet film looks really nice, especially in highlights.
I'm surprised that the Phaseone does not do better in the highlights, it looks like all digital does at the top end. Check out the shot of the money and it's silver strip. Compare that with the film of the same. The shot with the bridge in the highlight, the bridge is just not there on the digital.
 It's always been my major bug with my digital cameras, what happens at the highlight end. Especially white cloud or into the Sun shots, specular reflections etc.   Resolution is not the only factor in making images, having more tones is just as important as counting more leaves imho.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 05:28:06 PM by KevinA » Logged

Kevin.
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« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2013, 04:56:20 PM »
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From what I am seeing, that is a 70 yo with arthritis, I would say stick with film. My friend is 70 and intelligent, but stick him in front of a computer and try to teach him some photoshop basics and it's a whole lot of pain.

My suggestion would be to sell the blad and to buy a Contax G2 and lenses. Just saying…

Cheers,
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ndevlin
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« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2013, 01:36:58 PM »
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For the OP's friend:

Mamiya 6/7 + Scan Cafe + Lightroom = be happy. 

- N.
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Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera
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