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Author Topic: Need advice to upgrade my PCs Mainboard, CPU and memory  (Read 5496 times)
armand
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« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2013, 07:10:15 PM »
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Well, I was secretly hoping it will brake so I have a very good reason to upgrade  Wink

But as I said right now with usual use the CPU temperature stays under 30 C, and with heavier use goes into the 40s with rare short bursts into the lower 50s.
If it lasts I'm ok as it added just enough extra snap to the system (and LR in particular) to keep me happy: Geekbench 64bit - S 2287, M 7961, comparable to a 13" Haswell retina. I'll make sure I make daily backups. If it breaks I'll have to change the entire thing anyway, it has more than 4 years by now and I have several laptops and iPads to keep me running short term.
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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2013, 07:25:44 PM »
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Well, I was secretly hoping it will brake so I have a very good reason to upgrade  Wink

But as I said right now with usual use the CPU temperature stays under 30 C, and with heavier use goes into the 40s with rare short bursts into the lower 50s.
If it lasts I'm ok as it added just enough extra snap to the system (and LR in particular) to keep me happy: Geekbench 64bit - S 2287, M 7961, comparable to a 13" Haswell retina. I'll make sure I make daily backups. If it breaks I'll have to change the entire thing anyway, it has more than 4 years by now and I have several laptops and iPads to keep me running short term.

That's a healthy way to look at things.   

Keep in mind, all components are heat sensitive.  Not just the CPU.  Try to find a program that picks up as man of your MB's sensors as possible.. it's possible your CPU is sitting at 30c because its' got a big cooler strapped to it, but one of your bridges could be twice that.. probably isn't, but you get the point.   

Also, you should know that the hotter a component runs, the worse it performs right up to the point of failure.
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MirekElsner
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« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2013, 10:28:08 AM »
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I would suggest starting with quick analysis of the bottlenecks. You can use Task Manager, check activity of your hard drives watching their led diodes or you can use perfmon to get detailed view of your computer's activity. Identify if your computer runs out of physical memory, if it is hard drive activity (which can be caused with both file saving and lack of physical memory) that bothers you or the CPU. Then address the area that is the biggest impact on your workflow. If there are multiple factors and limited resources, I would personally give highest priority to a RAM upgrade - this can improve performance by an order of magnitude, next one would be an SSD drive - the performance gain is huge as well. Take a look at the Samsung EVO drives, you can get up to 1 TB. I would be considering CPU/GPU upgrade if the tools (brush etc.) were lagging or if all issues with memory and HDs were resolved. I am not sure about going to more cores vs. higher CPU frequency, though. I think it would depend on the most frequently used PS tools in your workflow and their ability to use multiple cores simultaneously. 
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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2013, 10:30:33 AM »
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Already done:

- CPUs: All flat filled
- RAM: Full
- Disk activity: Insane lot

This PC is completely overloaded.
I'll work on an action to make benchmark that makes sense.
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MirekElsner
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« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2013, 11:11:29 AM »
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Quote
- Should I go for 16, 32 or 64 Gigs of RAM? Which type/brand of RAM?

This depends on your file sizes, number of levels, bit depth, number of cache levels, history states, memory allocation % etc. Task Manager could give you a clue how much memory is needed as well as the efficiency indicator (http://www.thegraphicmac.com/observe-photoshops-scratch-disk-use-with-the-efficiency-monitor)
Some generic reading is here:
http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/optimize-performance-photoshop-cs4-cs5.html#main_Memory_Usage

Quote
- Processor: i5, i7 ? Which type and features give me what?

The latest generation is called Haswell. It does not do much more than the previous generation in desktops, but apparently generates less heat. i7 is higher performance than i5 and is generally available with more cores. Besides number of cores and frequency, another interesting parameter is cache size. Bigger cache means that the CPU can process some memory - intensive task faster, because accessing cache is faster than accessing RAM. CPUs with greater cache are also more expensive and I suspect the performance boost is most likely not as big as to justify the cost increase (compared to SSD, for example). I haven't done any comparisons, though.

Quote
- Mainboard: I have no clue what to look for, only that ATX form factor fits my current rig.

Look at something form reputable brand that supports the Haswell chips and has a 5 star rating on newegg. If you want 32G or more memory, make sure your selected motherboard actually supports it. Buy the motherboard before you buy memory - some motherboards may support special memory configurations where you can get better performance if you use specific number of memory modules (e.g. quad channel).

Quote
- Second SSD: Size? Brand?

Again, I would look at ratings at newegg and other sites. My favorite is the Samsung EVO 840. You can get 1TB for $600 and the performance is pretty good.
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MirekElsner
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« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2013, 11:19:45 AM »
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Already done:

- CPUs: All flat filled
- RAM: Full
- Disk activity: Insane lot

This PC is completely overloaded.
I'll work on an action to make benchmark that makes sense.

Reading your wish list, perhaps the best upgrade would be to leave your computer as is and switch over to Leica M (or the new Sony Alpha 7). Your current computer could handle the files just fine. Not what you wanted to hear, but trying to think out of the box...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 11:22:44 AM by MirekElsner » Logged
Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2013, 12:25:48 PM »
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Reading your wish list, perhaps the best upgrade would be to leave your computer as is and switch over to Leica M (or the new Sony Alpha 7). Your current computer could handle the files just fine. Not what you wanted to hear, but trying to think out of the box...

My Mamiya smokes these .... no way to change.
My .plan for cameras is a Fuji X and a Digital back+Tech camera in the future.
Cheesy
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MirekElsner
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« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2013, 11:51:21 AM »
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Some reading on the subject from Adobe: http://blogs.adobe.com/crawlspace/2012/10/how-to-tune-photoshop-cs6-for-peak-performance.html
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Sunny Alan
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« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2013, 10:54:18 PM »
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Was watching this thread for some time.

Will you please sum up with the final configuration, so that I too can 'build' one system?
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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2013, 12:38:41 AM »
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It will take some time, but I will post.
In the moment I am thinking about a possible PCI-E SSD, but these are terribly expensive.
I'll most likely go for a 6 core i7, 64 Gigs RAM and a some SATA SSDs.
With the RAM I am not entirely sure if I should go for speed or latency, probably speed helps more than latency with my large files.
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armand
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« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2013, 09:30:22 PM »
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The more I think about the more it looks that you might be overdoing it, besides the fact I'm not sure you would be able to stay within your budget. If you really want to go this direction I would look at a motherboard that has thunderbolt also.
This link posted in another thread here is pretty eye opening: http://anandtech.com/bench/CPU/25
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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2013, 12:48:03 AM »
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The more I think about the more it looks that you might be overdoing it, besides the fact I'm not sure you would be able to stay within your budget. If you really want to go this direction I would look at a motherboard that has thunderbolt also.
This link posted in another thread here is pretty eye opening: http://anandtech.com/bench/CPU/25

For many years, decades even, we've been conditioned to buy the most powerful computer out there.. and still not have enough.  But over the last 4-5 years hardware has outpaced software to the point where using the old mindset it's easy to exceed the point of marginal returns as related to productivity.  I use the "point of marginal returns as related to productivity" phrase because no one should be telling anyone else what they "need" or "want", because it can always be taken in a negative way.   It's simply easier to say "for your uses, running your software, you won't notice any appreciable gains past this much power... "    And even then they look at you like selling Dr. Nechams Spirit Water out of a covered wagon down by the train depot..

It's tough when the persons last frame of reference is a 3-5 year old system that takes then the better part of a cheese sandwich to render a pano, and you're working with the newest/fastest every day.  But hey, if you're got the funding then get the best and enjoy.
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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2013, 01:37:45 AM »
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I have always bought technology 1 or 2 generations behind, usually at an edge where a next generation was about to come, so things got cheap.
Since I don't have to do everything in one step I can upgrade bit by bit and see what it helps.
The first step will be Mainboard, CPU and Memory.
After that I'll check my disc configuration.
These PCIe discs are quite expensive, but incredibly fast in the same moment.
I expect them to drop in price in future.
So - no need to worry about my purse. Wink

Cheers
~Chris
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armand
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« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2013, 07:16:04 AM »
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Did you consider SSD in RAID0?
You might get close speed wise and maybe cheaper?! Use 2 smaller ones (120 GB or so for each) for the system (if your motherboard supports booting from a RAID) and 2 larger ones for the work drive, or at least where you will have the most used files.

As I said before for me overclocking the CPU by 40% and 2 SSD in RAID0 as a work drive are doing the trick ( and changing some fans to make the damn thing quiet again). Looking at the link from anand the 4770k seems to be around the sweet point unless the apps that you have really know how to use more than 4 cores.
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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2013, 11:48:34 AM »
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I have always bought technology 1 or 2 generations behind, usually at an edge where a next generation was about to come, so things got cheap.
Since I don't have to do everything in one step I can upgrade bit by bit and see what it helps.
The first step will be Mainboard, CPU and Memory.
After that I'll check my disc configuration.
These PCIe discs are quite expensive, but incredibly fast in the same moment.
I expect them to drop in price in future.
So - no need to worry about my purse. Wink

Cheers
~Chris

In that case consider a server class MB with a couple 12 core CPU's and 256gb of RAM..  Roll Eyes
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armand
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« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2014, 12:39:02 PM »
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I don't know about Christoph but as un update for my part I will likely order this configuration in the next week:

Intel i7-4790
Noctua NH-U12S
Asus Z97 Pro
GSkill Ripjaws X series 32 GB @ 1600
Samsung 840 EVO 500 GB *
WD Black 3TB x2 (in RAID 1)
Asus GTX 750 Ti (I think it was Asus, I don't have the exact list in front of me)
SeaSonic SS-KM3 750W
Asus ThunderboltEX
Win 8.1 Pro (not excited about it but it's probably faster and more future proof than 7)


* still some uncertainty regarding the SSD configuration.

I was set on the Samsung 840 Pro 256 GB but for 20% more money I get double the capacity and 3-5% less performance. Unlikely that I'll keep it long enough for the shorter life expectancy to be an issue.
Another option for the boot drive would be to use the m.2 interface from Crucial or Intel or a PCI express from Plextor or Asus, with small improvement in the real world performance.

The second SSD issue is if I'm still going the use the 2 Crucial M500 960GB that I have right now in RAID 0 as a work drive, I'm tempted to just use them in an external enclosure for a fast shockproof travel backup drive ( in RAID 0 or 1)


Right now the entire thing ends up around $2200.


PS. No gaming. LR mostly and probably more Photoshop. Occasional 1080p video editing, up to few hours in a month.

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Bill Koenig
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« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2014, 03:16:41 PM »
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I just put together the following high end system, for photo and video editing.
The first three components in this list were hand picked to work together, CPU-Motherboard-Memory and water cooling is a must, if your planning to overclock.
The G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 64GB (8 x 8GB) 2133 OC is a match to the CPU and motherboard, its important to use this Ram as other brands may have problems.
When you purchase ram, always buy a matched set, you should never buy say 32GB and then add more down the road.
I've been researching this system for almost a year now, and with tax return money in hand, I pulled the plug and sent off my order to Newegg a few weeks ago.
Don't even think about the Sandy Bridge-E the Ivy Bridge-E replaced it, its more or less the same price as well.
All for under $3000.00 But to be honest I've already added two more SSD and a 3TB HD

Intel Core i7-4930K Ivy Bridge-E 3.4GHz
LGA 2011 130W Desktop Processor

ASUS Rampage IV Black Edition LGA 2011 Intel X79
SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Extended ATX Intel Motherboard

G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 64GB (8 x 8GB)
240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000)
Desktop Memory Model
F3-17000CL11Q2-64GBZLD

NVIDIA® Quadro® K2000

SeaSonic Platinum SS-860XP2 860W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready
80 PLUS PLATINUM Certified Full Modular
Active PFC Power Supply New 4th Gen CPU Certified Haswell Ready

SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW
2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme/All In One Liquid Cooling System CLW0217

Cooler Master HAF X - Full Tower Computer Case
with High Airflow Windowed Side Panel and USB 3.0
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 03:25:49 PM by Bill Koenig » Logged

Bill Koenig,
armand
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« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2014, 09:11:25 PM »
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Mine is coming tomorrow, I'll post some benchmarks when I get it settled.

I was quite tempted by an Ivy Bridge-E with 64GB but seemed a little excessive, time will tell. I would have taken the 64 GB but not the 6-core, but then again I won't do much video editing.
Btw, my configuration would have gone above 3k as far as I recall.
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armand
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« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2014, 08:51:45 PM »
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Here is the Geekbench scoring: http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/585246

Most of the software installed, antivirus running.

On a side note the Samsung EVO 500GB read speed in Samsung Magician was 700, I'm not sure how it's possible, should be lower.
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2014, 08:16:43 AM »
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From the described builds on this thread, I would note that most people are putting in power supplies that are way overboard in terms of wattage.  If you are only running a single GPU you honestly don't need more than 600W PSUs (550W PSUs are probably the sweet spot here).  the higher wattage PSUs are really only for those who are running dual CPUs. 
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