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Author Topic: What if I pair a Sony A7r with Rodenstock HR Digaron-S?  (Read 7810 times)
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2013, 09:38:16 AM »
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Hi,

There is something called flange distance, that matters a lot. You can adapt a lot of things to mirrorless cameras, but only the Sony Alpha and Leica M (240) offer short flange distance, live view and full format at the same time.

I do agree that Sony lacks consistency in it's product line.

Best regards
Erik

Maybe I'm missing it, but why an A7r when a d800 is only $400 and something more?

Sony tends to dabble and walk away from product lines all the time, but Nikon usually keeps a format around for a long time?

I can kind of see the A7R as a compact ff walkaround camera, but if I was adding large lenses or tilt shift mechanisms Id go all either used digital back or the d800.

What am I missing here?

IMO

BC
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MaxKißler
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« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2013, 10:56:44 AM »
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I guess the A7R is preferable because of the shorter flange distance compared to the D800. Though even without a mirror box, the shortest usable focal lengths on the A7R will probably be in the 60mm range. Anything shorter will probably not focus to unfinite.
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alan_b
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« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2013, 11:59:19 AM »
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Unfortunately neither of those examples provide any in-depth detail on actual use as a tilt-shift system.  In particular, the combination of lens shift, offset microlenses and raw converter can be a dealbreaker on image quality.

The only thing these links show is that the lenses physically fit on the adapter, while hinting at illumination problems.

Hi Eduardo,

from this source look like it is working pretty well on the 17TSE:

http://www.pf.nl/19555/hands-on-sony-alpha-7r-metabones-adapter-eos-lenzen/

and same here:

http://blog.nicgranleese.com/2013/10/24/sony-a7r-review-for-architectural-photographers/

not sure about the credibility of the sources, indeed. Where did you get the news about the 17TSE not very good on the A7R? As you may guess I'm very interested in this combo...

Massimo
www.massimocristaldi.com

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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2013, 12:21:13 PM »
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Hi,

I think that article on the 17/4 Canon discussed a shifted lens. Using lenses for SLRs are not problematic as those lenses have low beam tilt. Using LF lenses is more problematic, but the Rodenstock lenses are retrofocus lenses and that may be helpful. The offset microlenses may also be helpful in mitigating the problem.

I may have the impression that CMOS may be more problematic than CCD, because of deeper wells, but I may be wrong.

Best regards
Erik

Unfortunately neither of those examples provide any in-depth detail on actual use as a tilt-shift system.  In particular, the combination of lens shift, offset microlenses and raw converter can be a dealbreaker on image quality.

The only thing these links show is that the lenses physically fit on the adapter, while hinting at illumination problems.

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gerald.d
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« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2013, 12:25:34 PM »
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Maybe I'm missing it, but why an A7r when a d800 is only $400 and something more?

Sony tends to dabble and walk away from product lines all the time, but Nikon usually keeps a format around for a long time?

I can kind of see the A7R as a compact ff walkaround camera, but if I was adding large lenses or tilt shift mechanisms Id go all either used digital back or the d800.

What am I missing here?

IMO

BC

It's all about the flange distance.
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mcristaldi
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« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2013, 12:28:57 PM »
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Hi,

I think that article on the 17/4 Canon discussed a shifted lens. Using lenses for SLRs are not problematic as those lenses have low beam tilt. Using LF lenses is more problematic, but the Rodenstock lenses are retrofocus lenses and that may be helpful. The offset microlenses may also be helpful in mitigating the problem.


I really hope so, but, for sure, we'll need some detailed tests.
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alan_b
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« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2013, 12:37:27 PM »
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Both were quick experiences (half hour?), shooting jpeg, and the 17mm was described as having severe light falloff.  I hope I'm being overly pessimistic though, as I'd like the A7R to work with PC lenses!

I've seen aliasing artifacts using retrofocus shift lenses on a D800 with ACR/LR.  It seems to me that offset microlenses are a negative when using shift, as the lens axis is no longer centered on the sensor.

Hi,

I think that article on the 17/4 Canon discussed a shifted lens. Using lenses for SLRs are not problematic as those lenses have low beam tilt. Using LF lenses is more problematic, but the Rodenstock lenses are retrofocus lenses and that may be helpful. The offset microlenses may also be helpful in mitigating the problem.

I may have the impression that CMOS may be more problematic than CCD, because of deeper wells, but I may be wrong.

Best regards
Erik

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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2013, 01:32:03 PM »
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Hi,

I would expect a 17 mm lens on full frame to have severe light fallow with shift, there is something called cosine^4 law. Retrofocus lenses beat that law. It is possible to compensate light fallof in software. I would guess that the A7r works as well as Canon 5DIII with Canon lenses, but automatic corrections may be more cumbersome.

Aliasing is not related to lens shift. Aliasing arises when lens resolution exceeds sensor resolution.

I would expect the Sony A7 to be like a Nikon D800/D800E in most cases.

Best regards
Erik

Both were quick experiences (half hour?), shooting jpeg, and the 17mm was described as having severe light falloff.  I hope I'm being overly pessimistic though, as I'd like the A7R to work with PC lenses!

I've seen aliasing artifacts using retrofocus shift lenses on a D800 with ACR/LR.  It seems to me that offset microlenses are a negative when using shift, as the lens axis is no longer centered on the sensor.

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uaiomex
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« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2013, 08:36:20 PM »
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Hi Massimo:
I quote this from Nic Granleese addressed to me in his blog:
"
Hi Eduardo,
The Canon 24mm TSE ii physically / shifts fine with the A7r. The images above showing full shift up and down are of the 24mm lens. You will have to watch where you place your tripod plate though. I had to put mine on backwards. As for the electronics of the lens like aperture, that all appeared to work well and because the lens is manual focus that wasn’t an issue. For lenses with autofocus though you may have some issues with focus speed.
As for vignetting, the 17mm had obvious corner shadows, but the 24mm looked ok at a glance. More tests needed there though.
I just checked the meta data on the jpeg from the A7r and info like aperture, and focal length have been saved correctly, but the model of the lens hasn’t shown up. So apart from that it looks like the Canon 24 and 17 TSE lenses are going to work just fine. I can’t comment on the image quality yet as I wasn’t able to take enough photos, but I have asked Sony if I can borrow the A7r for a full shoot and a more in depth review."

End of quote.

Maybe I am misunderstanding his words.  Spanish is my native language, not english.

I'm very excited about this camera for shooting landscape, architecture and product. My 6D for everything else.

Regards
Eduardo


Hi Eduardo,

from this source look like it is working pretty well on the 17TSE:

http://www.pf.nl/19555/hands-on-sony-alpha-7r-metabones-adapter-eos-lenzen/

and same here:

http://blog.nicgranleese.com/2013/10/24/sony-a7r-review-for-architectural-photographers/

not sure about the credibility of the sources, indeed. Where did you get the news about the 17TSE not very good on the A7R? As you may guess I'm very interested in this combo...

Massimo
www.massimocristaldi.com

« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 08:39:25 PM by uaiomex » Logged
uaiomex
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« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2013, 09:02:45 PM »
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Hi BC:

It is about the proximity of the sensor to the lens mount. It opens (imho) some interesting possibilities to use the A7r as an "alternative" camera. Tinkering with gear has been a great deal of fun for many photographers since the invention of the art.

I imagine Sony making this camera but with a much bigger throat. It will turn it in to a universal mount camera. Sort of a baby digital back.

I wish Sony would get greedy and more adventurous to release this sensor in a digital back fashion with adapters for all sort of technical cameras and dslr lenses with a big fully articulated 4" LCD screen.

I bet that in no time Rodenstock would come with HR glass optimized for 24X36 with some movements.

I would gladly pay for this contraption 2 or 3 times the price of an A7r. Once in a while dreams come true. The A7r may actually be the camera we, TSE lovers been dreaming of for the last 3 years.

Eduardo


 
Maybe I'm missing it, but why an A7r when a d800 is only $400 and something more?

Sony tends to dabble and walk away from product lines all the time, but Nikon usually keeps a format around for a long time?

I can kind of see the A7R as a compact ff walkaround camera, but if I was adding large lenses or tilt shift mechanisms Id go all either used digital back or the d800.

What am I missing here?

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 09:16:39 PM by uaiomex » Logged
Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2013, 01:58:31 PM »
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that would be amazing Eduardo! an open system like that would be so welcome.
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uaiomex
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« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2013, 08:28:13 PM »
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Thanks Phil. I believe so.

Sony is relatively new in this arena. They have less to lose, so they can gamble further to solidly position themselves at the top. If someone has started designing and manufacturing real digital cameras from scratch is Sony. They just need to push the envelope.
With very few exceptions, all other cameras in the market are just plain analog legacies. Nothing wrong with that but it is about time we see the full potential of digital cameras.

Go Sony!
Eduardo


that would be amazing Eduardo! an open system like that would be so welcome.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 08:32:04 PM by uaiomex » Logged
Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2013, 05:27:03 AM »
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I agree Sony so far is the one showing more of what maybe possible, while for the most part Nikon gains the useful byproduct of their "testing".
Canon I think is doing something interesting by going with sensors larger than 35mm, although this is a bit of a rumor, so not sure if that will be soon or later? I thought by now they would answer to the D800. But these are all incremental closed platform "business as usual" approaches.  Ricoh had an interesting appraoch with the interchangable cartridge style, but overall it is limited when you comapre it with other top DSLRs.  A7R looks like a great start of something bigger. I hope the innovation trend snowballs.

Everyone is playing it incrementally safe. I wish Sigma would get off their rears and do something drastic with that Foveon chip, license it out to someone with lots of resources to push that chip as far as it can go. It requires no AA filter, no moire issues, more pure color without guessing, and all its doing is sitting in a limited body. Too bad.
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