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Author Topic: What if I pair a Sony A7r with Rodenstock HR Digaron-S?  (Read 5759 times)
uaiomex
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« on: November 03, 2013, 12:19:07 PM »
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What could happen if I manage to pair a Sony A7r with a 35mm Rodenstock HR Digaron-S?
This camera will inevitably be used with a vast array of lenses. At this forum and other one , I've read many times that even the best dslr wide-angle can't march the Rodie with digital backs. (hence posting here).
It's been suggested before that a digital back with a 24X36 sensor should be built for certain applications. The main gain would be having Live view and price. And as far as Sony sensors go, more DR.
Guillermo Lujik, one of my most respected Lula members suggested considering the A7r as a digital back.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=83670.0

What do you think?

Eduardo
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2013, 02:14:56 PM »
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Hi,

I checked the MTF data and they are truly excellent. That lens would excel on the Sony Alpha A7r. BUT, it would not be as good as a corresponding lens on a 36MP MF camera. On the other hand, it would induce a lot of aliasing on the theoretical 36MP MFD camera and less on the Sony A7r, due to smaller pixels.

Not sure it would fit, physically.

Best regards
Erik

What could happen if I manage to pair a Sony A7r with a 35mm Rodenstock HR Digaron-S?
This camera will inevitably be used with a vast array of lenses. At this forum and other one , I've read many times that even the best dslr wide-angle can't march the Rodie with digital backs. (hence posting here).
It's been suggested before that a digital back with a 24X36 sensor should be built for certain applications. The main gain would be having Live view and price. And as far as Sony sensors go, more DR.
Guillermo Lujik, one of my most respected Lula members suggested considering the A7r as a digital back.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=83670.0

What do you think?

Eduardo
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jerome_m
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2013, 02:55:04 PM »
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Unless you want to tilt/shift, you might be better served by Sony own 35mm lens for the E-mount. Here, have a look at the MTF courtesy of Sony Japan website:



Everybody is getting so excited at the thought of adapting their favorite lens to that camera and neglecting the native 35mm because it is only f/2.8. They are wrong.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2013, 03:06:18 PM »
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Hi,

I still think that those MTF curves are not measured in white light, but calculated. To begin with, they ignore diffraction.

I have heard it is a good lens, but I am very skeptikal about Sony's MTF data.

Best regards
Erik



Unless you want to tilt/shift, you might be better served by Sony own 35mm lens for the E-mount. Here, have a look at the MTF courtesy of Sony Japan website:



Everybody is getting so excited at the thought of adapting their favorite lens to that camera and neglecting the native 35mm because it is only f/2.8. They are wrong.
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jerome_m
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2013, 03:17:37 PM »
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I have heard it is a good lens, but I am very skeptikal about Sony's MTF data.

Sue them, then. There is big money to be gained.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2013, 03:43:20 PM »
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Hi,

What aperture is used? White or monochrome light? Calculated or measured? Their MTF data seems to ignore diffraction…

Best regards
Erik

Sue them, then. There is big money to be gained.
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uaiomex
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2013, 06:21:42 PM »
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According to the Linos chart on this lens and the schematics, it seems there is a good inch of space between the very rear of the lens to the sensor plane. I don't know if that's enough to clear the A7r throat and to have a few degrees of tilt. without tilt, I don't se much reason to use this lens. Rodenstock states it is a f5.6 lens only and suggests using tilts for dof control.

Ok, bad idea. Let's wait for a Zeiss Otus wide-angle lens and see.

Eduardo


Hi,

I checked the MTF data and they are truly excellent. That lens would excel on the Sony Alpha A7r. BUT, it would not be as good as a corresponding lens on a 36MP MF camera. On the other hand, it would induce a lot of aliasing on the theoretical 36MP MFD camera and less on the Sony A7r, due to smaller pixels.

Not sure it would fit, physically.

Best regards
Erik

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uaiomex
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2013, 06:31:02 PM »
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True. The sample pictures of this lens are outstanding.
My first plan was to pair the A7r with my excellent TSEII 17 and 24 wides. The 24 is super sharp and it seems it will work fine with the Sony. Unfortunately it doesn't seem so with the 17TSE.
Canon is rumored to update the 45 and the 90 TS's for next year. I bet the 90mm would be totally spectacular.
Eduardo

 
Unless you want to tilt/shift, you might be better served by Sony own 35mm lens for the E-mount. Here, have a look at the MTF courtesy of Sony Japan website:



Everybody is getting so excited at the thought of adapting their favorite lens to that camera and neglecting the native 35mm because it is only f/2.8. They are wrong.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2013, 07:30:36 PM »
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According to the Linos chart on this lens and the schematics, it seems there is a good inch of space between the very rear of the lens to the sensor plane. I don't know if that's enough to clear the A7r throat and to have a few degrees of tilt. without tilt, I don't se much reason to use this lens. Rodenstock states it is a f5.6 lens only and suggests using tilts for dof control.

Taking this advice from Rodenstock at face value is throwing a way a LOT of practical use of this lens.

When you ask a lens manufacturer what aperture they suggest a lens be used at their answer will be based 99% on the optical quality as measured in the lab (flat subject matter, incredibly precise focus, zero user error).

In practice using this lens only at f/5.6 is ignoring the incredibly good images you can get at f/8 or f/11 or even f/16. Will an image shot at 36mp@f/5.6 be sharper in the plane of focus than the somewhat diffracted results you'll get at 35mp@f/16? Sure. But the later image will still be very sharp and contain lots of real world detail, and will also have the DOF and wiggle-room-for-misfocus that benefit real world image making. The difference in sharpness between f/5.6 and f/8 in particular is going to be exceedingly small to the point of being barely worth mentioning for most practical image making.
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2013, 07:00:43 AM »
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Is there Sony mount version of Cambo X2 Pro or Horseman VCC Pro? I think it's going to be really great to put these new Sony cameras in studio photography use.
I know there are many people using Cambo and Horseman with D800e, and Sony's advantage is it's mirrorless.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 07:03:34 AM by Pics2 » Logged
digitalcameraman
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2013, 07:48:08 AM »
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Cambo X2 is only currently offered in a bellows to fit Phase One/Mamiya, Nikon, and Canon.

I suppose if a manufacture like Metabones has a lens adapter like Sony plans to have for this new camera line to use other lenses, then one should be able to mount the Sony lens adapter, use a Nikon or Canon bellows from Cambo, and use any lens that you could attach to the lens offering for this system.

You can buy a Copal, Hasselblad, Mamiya M645, and Mamiya RZ67 lens board now to use with the Cambo X2.

Brain Smith had tested these and confirmed that they worked very well. Here is his links.



[url=http://www.metabones.com/sony/buy-eos-nex-adapter]


Chris Snipes
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Chris Snipes
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Pics2
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2013, 08:20:20 AM »
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Thanks Chris.
I completely forgot about adapters. Actually, by buying Cambo X2 with, let's say, Nikon mount you can use Canon, Sony etc cameras via dedicated adapters.
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Justinr
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2013, 08:44:43 AM »
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Cambo X2 is only currently offered in a bellows to fit Phase One/Mamiya, Nikon, and Canon.

I suppose if a manufacture like Metabones has a lens adapter like Sony plans to have for this new camera line to use other lenses, then one should be able to mount the Sony lens adapter, use a Nikon or Canon bellows from Cambo, and use any lens that you could attach to the lens offering for this system.

You can buy a Copal, Hasselblad, Mamiya M645, and Mamiya RZ67 lens board now to use with the Cambo X2.

Brain Smith had tested these and confirmed that they worked very well. Here is his links.



[url=http://www.metabones.com/sony/buy-eos-nex-adapter]


Chris Snipes
Business Development Manager
Calumet Photo
1001 N Federal Hwy
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33304
chris.snipes@calumetphoto.com
813-335-2473 Cell




Y'know, Mr Smith has gone and done the usual thing when testing a camera, he's headed off to somewhere near the equator where you are pretty much guaranteed strong light and bright colours. He then parades the sort of pictures that any reasonable camera should provide in such circumstances. So what! Us poor sods used to working on dull days in less forgiving latitudes want to know how cameras cope with a real challenge, but I guess the marketing guys reckon that doesn't sell the dream so we'll have to struggle on in the dark, literally.

Slightly off topic I know, but jeez, I feel better for it!   Grin
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gerald.d
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2013, 08:48:20 AM »
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C'mon ALPA - make a mount adapter for this thing. Turn it into a baby-FPS Cheesy
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2013, 11:34:56 PM »
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Y'know, Mr Smith has gone and done the usual thing when testing a camera, he's headed off to somewhere near the equator where you are pretty much guaranteed strong light and bright colours. He then parades the sort of pictures that any reasonable camera should provide in such circumstances. So what! Us poor sods used to working on dull days in less forgiving latitudes want to know how cameras cope with a real challenge, but I guess the marketing guys reckon that doesn't sell the dream so we'll have to struggle on in the dark, literally.

Signs of early winter depression?  Wink

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2013, 09:58:06 AM »
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C'mon ALPA - make a mount adapter for this thing. Turn it into a baby-FPS Cheesy

Gerald, my immediate thought as well…..if that works I would buy one….
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laughingbear
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« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2013, 12:45:18 PM »
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So would I Dan.... so would I!

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mcristaldi
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« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2013, 06:27:21 AM »
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True. The sample pictures of this lens are outstanding.
My first plan was to pair the A7r with my excellent TSEII 17 and 24 wides. The 24 is super sharp and it seems it will work fine with the Sony. Unfortunately it doesn't seem so with the 17TSE.
Canon is rumored to update the 45 and the 90 TS's for next year. I bet the 90mm would be totally spectacular.
Eduardo

 

Hi Eduardo,

from this source look like it is working pretty well on the 17TSE:

http://www.pf.nl/19555/hands-on-sony-alpha-7r-metabones-adapter-eos-lenzen/

and same here:

http://blog.nicgranleese.com/2013/10/24/sony-a7r-review-for-architectural-photographers/

not sure about the credibility of the sources, indeed. Where did you get the news about the 17TSE not very good on the A7R? As you may guess I'm very interested in this combo...

Massimo
www.massimocristaldi.com
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Ken R
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« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2013, 07:18:12 AM »
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You can mount the A7R on an Arca Swiss M line. I don't think the wide angle lenses will work but I this Sony Nex mounted to the rig with a 72 schneider. Looked like a very cool setup. The lens was an R-mount but it can use other mounts.
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bcooter
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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2013, 08:23:41 AM »
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Maybe I'm missing it, but why an A7r when a d800 is only $400 and something more?

Sony tends to dabble and walk away from product lines all the time, but Nikon usually keeps a format around for a long time?

I can kind of see the A7R as a compact ff walkaround camera, but if I was adding large lenses or tilt shift mechanisms Id go all either used digital back or the d800.

What am I missing here?

IMO

BC
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