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Author Topic: Lightroom 5 - Spot Removal Sync - Is it me or is it crap?  (Read 3811 times)
Dinarius
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« on: November 06, 2013, 03:07:23 AM »
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Windows 8

Spot removal syncing works flawlessly in Adobe Camera RAW. It simply selects exactly the same areas in the other images that you have selected in the master image.

In Lightroom, unless I'm doing something stupid (quite possible), it's terrible - and that's being polite.

When I sync, I always have to check the other files to reset some of the (many) crazy selections it has made. This can take ages when cleaning a plain background, for example, only to find that LR has made selections from the object you're photographing!

This shouldn't happen.

Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks.

D
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2013, 03:33:20 AM »
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Am I doing something wrong?

Hi,

Are you adjusting the region from which the sample is taken, instead of leaving it on automatic selection, and then copy that? You should only copy automatically selected clone or heal regions between images. Once you've adjusted their position, that manual adjustment is also copied to another image, and usually makes no sense in that other image.

Cheers,
Bart
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elied
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« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2013, 03:37:18 AM »
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But the original auto source selection is often wrong and sometimes completely ridiculous.
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Dinarius
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« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2013, 04:05:12 AM »
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Hi,

Are you adjusting the region from which the sample is taken, instead of leaving it on automatic selection, and then copy that? You should only copy automatically selected clone or heal regions between images. Once you've adjusted their position, that manual adjustment is also copied to another image, and usually makes no sense in that other image.

Cheers,
Bart

I'm not sure I follow you.

A typical example for me is shooting against seamless background paper.

I'm shooting an object that occupies only a small area of the frame and I'm rotating it so that the viewer will have views of it from all sides.

So, I clean the first image and then choose Sync and tick only the Spot Removal box.

Now, remember that the selected images (4 or 5) are identical except for the subject being rotated. So, LR should simply copy the spot selections from the first image.

For the most part, it does. But, it makes some egregious selections, such as the selection circle leaping from a corner of the image (background seamless paper) all the way to the subject to make a selection. ACR would never do this.

?

Thanks.

D.
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2013, 04:55:12 AM »
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I'm not sure I follow you.

A typical example for me is shooting against seamless background paper.

I'm shooting an object that occupies only a small area of the frame and I'm rotating it so that the viewer will have views of it from all sides.

So, I clean the first image and then choose Sync and tick only the Spot Removal box.

Now, remember that the selected images (4 or 5) are identical except for the subject being rotated. So, LR should simply copy the spot selections from the first image.

Hi,

Thanks for adding a bit more context. In your specific shooting scenario, you (contrary to variable background situations) should manually reposition the selected regions on the background before synchronization. When you now sync the spot removals, the manually selected sampling positions should be preserved.

Quote
For the most part, it does. But, it makes some egregious selections, such as the selection circle leaping from a corner of the image (background seamless paper) all the way to the subject to make a selection.


That's because the region selection was still automatic, not manual.

Quote
ACR would never do this.

Apparently they are a bit different in that behavior. I can't explain that.

Cheers,
Bart
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Bryan Conner
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2013, 05:10:28 AM »
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Are your versions of Lightroom and ACR the same?
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Dinarius
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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2013, 05:23:37 AM »
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Hi Bart,

I do manually reselect any bad selections that are made first time round on the master image.

My fundamental point is that these selections (and the automatic selections in the master file that I was happy to leave unchanged) are not then synced exactly as I chose them. LR will randomly make terrible selections for some of the corrections on the copy files/images.

And as I said above, ACR would never do this. It copies exactly what was selected on the master image, whether those original selections were automatic or manual.

Thanks.

D.
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Dinarius
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« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2013, 05:25:31 AM »
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Are your versions of Lightroom and ACR the same?

Bryan,

I have LR 5 and the most recent ACR also.

Thanks.

D.
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2013, 06:45:19 AM »
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Hi Bart,

I do manually reselect any bad selections that are made first time round on the master image.

Hi,

Then something appears to be broken (again), as the intended behavior is to respect manually repositioned selections when synchronizing.

See also:
http://forums.adobe.com/message/5620514#5620514

Cheers,
Bart
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Dinarius
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2013, 07:06:31 AM »
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Hi,

Then something appears to be broken (again), as the intended behavior is to respect manually repositioned selections when synchronizing.

See also:
http://forums.adobe.com/message/5620514#5620514

Cheers,
Bart


Ahah! So, it appears to be an LR 5 problem then.

For the record, when I'm happy with the spot removal corrections on the master image, I Ctrl/highlight all the images I want to apply these to, click on Sync, click Spot Removal in the dialog and then Sync. I presume that's it? I never Auto Sync, whatever that is.

Thanks again.

D.
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2013, 07:23:46 AM »
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Ahah! So, it appears to be an LR 5 problem then.

For the record, when I'm happy with the spot removal corrections on the master image, I Ctrl/highlight all the images I want to apply these to, click on Sync, click Spot Removal in the dialog and then Sync. I presume that's it? I never Auto Sync, whatever that is.

The autosync behavior I'm referring to is; when you click on a (dust)spot, then a spot to clone or heal from is auto-selected. That auto-selecting will potentially result is other parts of the image being auto-selected when you sync that 'auto-select' setting to other files. Only when you drag the initial auto-selected spot to clone or heal from manually to another position, then that 'manual clone or heal from selection' position should be honored in synchronization as well, unless it's broken.

Cheers,
Bart
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Dinarius
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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2013, 07:35:44 AM »
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Bart, thanks.

Looks like I'll be returning to ACR then, coz multiple spot syncs are fundamental to my workflow.

Barks and wears a lead, as we say around here.  Smiley

D.
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Bryan Conner
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2013, 11:36:13 AM »
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Bryan,

I have LR 5 and the most recent ACR also.

Thanks.

D.

Ok, but do you have Lightroom 5.0 or Lightroom 5.2?  I just want to make sure that we are not overlooking something easy in the beginning.  Lightroom 5.2 included improvements to the auto find source feature of the spot healing tool. 
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kaelaria
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« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2013, 11:43:11 PM »
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It IS a huge bug and it really pissed me off last night.  It's the first time I ran in to it since I don't use the feature all that much.  I'm in the middle of editing a few thousand product images and was syncing the basic edits.  Somehow I synced from one I had a spot edit on it, so naturally the rest got it as well.  The problem I ran in to was I couldn't' get it back off!  I tried syncing from a file with NO spot treatment, nothing.  All others remained.  I tried copy/paste dev settings.  Same.  Bottom line the only way I was able to get it off is to select all and reset.  Then start over, being sure NOT to sync from anything with spot removal done to it.  I never had the issue before, sync would always respect every setting.  Now I wonder what OTHER settings may not be syncing correctly?
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2013, 12:25:55 AM »
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Hi,

If you use Auto sync LR will use different sources for each image, if you sync manually it will same source for each image. As Far As I Know.

I use LR 5.2 on Mac OS/X 10.8 and have no problems with spot removal.

Best regards
Erik


Windows 8

Spot removal syncing works flawlessly in Adobe Camera RAW. It simply selects exactly the same areas in the other images that you have selected in the master image.

In Lightroom, unless I'm doing something stupid (quite possible), it's terrible - and that's being polite.

When I sync, I always have to check the other files to reset some of the (many) crazy selections it has made. This can take ages when cleaning a plain background, for example, only to find that LR has made selections from the object you're photographing!

This shouldn't happen.

Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks.

D

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Dinarius
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« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2013, 04:51:31 AM »
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For the record, I'm using LR 5.2 on Windows 8. If I check for updates I get the usual you're up to date message.

As far as I know, I'm syncing spot removal manually - as I described above. So, maybe the problem is a Windows one. But, it's definitely a problem!!!

D.
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Dinarius
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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2013, 11:08:54 AM »
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For the purposes of clarification, I should add that Spot Removal syncing is not working for me with Spot Removal set to Heal.

I have no idea whether or not Syncing works with Spot Removal set to Clone.

D.
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Robert-Peter Westphal
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« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2013, 11:40:58 AM »
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Hello,

why not roll back in the protocol to remove the last unwanted sync ?

Robert
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Dinarius
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« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2013, 03:10:16 PM »
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Robert,

1. If you make 15-20 spot corrections to the master image and then synce those corrections to a dozen other images, when you check the other images for bad syncs, how can you possibly tell where the bad syncs are in the history panel? I couldn't.

2.  Isn't the whole point of this thread that the Sync feature should do exactly what it says on the tin; just like it does in ACR? Wink

Seriously hope this is addressed in any forthcoming update.

Surprised it doesn't get mentioned more often. Maybe LR is more pro-sumer than pro.

D.
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Dinarius
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« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2013, 04:13:18 AM »
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Been experimenting with this issue and my conclusion is that Syncing Spot Removal works fine if you sync just a few images.

But, if you try syncing multiple images, then the system goes awry.

The solution seems to be to sync in batches of 4 or 5.

Is this a RAM issue? I've got 8Gb.

A system issue? I'm Windows 8?

Answers on a postcard please.  Wink

D.

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