Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: A7r first impression  (Read 15464 times)
wildlightphoto
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 668


« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2013, 12:45:36 PM »
ReplyReply

It's sufficient to say the A7 and A7r are the first cameras to offer the feature set of the A7 and A7r  Wink

They're certainly game-changers and I'm looking forward to further developments in this direction, like an A9r  Smiley
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 12:49:27 PM by wildlightphoto » Logged
BJL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5168


« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2013, 01:32:05 PM »
ReplyReply

It's sufficient to say the A7 and A7r are the first cameras to offer the feature set of the A7 and A7r  Wink

They're certainly game-changers and I'm looking forward to further developments in this direction, like an A9r  Smiley
Saying that would only be sufficient if one wished to obfuscate on features like autofocus, and on suitability as an alternative to high end DSLRs --- which are important considerations for many people and were clearly on the mind of the OP. Note the reference to "the best of Canon and Nikon DSLRs" in the subject line of my posts and your reply!

But I agree that, due to my oversight of the lack of on-sensor PDAF in the A7R, we might have to wait for an A9R to "get it all". Or for Canon or Nikon to get serious about mirrorless system cameras. Or for a Leica M model with auto-focus?!
Logged
BernardLanguillier
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8334



WWW
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2013, 04:24:53 PM »
ReplyReply

I had the chance to use a a7r last weekend and tried the focus peaking function to set manual focus on the eyes of my daughter in a backlit situation.

It may be not have used it properly, but the peaking kept highlight the edges of her face on the bright background and hardly ever highlighted the eyes where I wanted to set the focus, at least not for more than a split second which made manual focusing impossible.

The lens mounted was the new Zeiss 35mm f2.8.

What is the experience of owners on this?

Cheers,
Bernard
Logged

A few images online here!
CptZar
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 115



WWW
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2013, 06:46:39 PM »
ReplyReply

As said, I use B&W as creative mode with, sharpness all the way up. Some use Contrast all the way up, too. I just read this here and will try it. Peaking level is mostly medium, with color red. This gives a very different picture, and red dots are quiet precise then. I did not have problems to focus on the eye. And that with a Canon 50/f1.2 at open aperture. Picture is not processed. Distance to object ca. 1-1.2 m so DOF <= 4mm.

With a color display I was not able to nail the focus.

Could could you focus when the face was not backlit?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 07:01:55 PM by CptZar » Logged

BernardLanguillier
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8334



WWW
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2013, 06:55:20 PM »
ReplyReply

As said, I use B&W as creative mode with, sharpness all the way up. Some use Contrast all the way up, too.

Are you saying that you need to set the viewfinder to B&W for make focus peaking usable?

Fine when you do B&W photography, but is color not an essential element of composition?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Bernard
Logged

A few images online here!
Vladimirovich
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1320


« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2013, 07:12:51 PM »
ReplyReply

but is color not an essential element of composition?
then you can see the original colors w/ your naked eye instead of quite distorted color in viewfinder and use viewfinder just to frame... it is quite subjective.
Logged
BernardLanguillier
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8334



WWW
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2013, 07:19:07 PM »
ReplyReply

then you can see the original colors w/ your naked eye instead of quite distorted color in viewfinder and use viewfinder just to frame... it is quite subjective.

Agreed that this works for some subjects like landscape, but you don't need focus peaking for these, or at least is it not essential.

Focus peaking is useful mostly for PJ like scenes with manual lenses.

In my view, it is essential to see in colors in the viewfinder for those occasions when you want to use focus peaking, unless you are doing B&W work of course.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 07:26:48 PM by BernardLanguillier » Logged

A few images online here!
CptZar
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 115



WWW
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2013, 01:21:05 AM »
ReplyReply

But you said, you couldn't focus on an eye. B&W enables you to do that, giving you the best results in critical situations. How would get the eye sharp with the e.g. Canon 50/f1.2, given the parameters I added to the picture, with the eye in the upper right third of the image. The focus points there will not work at that aperture. Only the center double cross focus points.  So will you manual focus through the OVF or use Live view?

« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 01:25:15 AM by CptZar » Logged

BernardLanguillier
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8334



WWW
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2013, 01:56:23 AM »
ReplyReply

But you said, you couldn't focus on an eye. B&W enables you to do that, giving you the best results in critical situations. How would get the eye sharp with the e.g. Canon 50/f1.2, given the parameters I added to the picture, with the eye in the upper right third of the image. The focus points there will not work at that aperture. Only the center double cross focus points.  So will you manual focus through the OVF or use Live view?

If you really need to position the eye of a subject in the corner of the frame, which I have not done in a single photograph I can remember, then focus and recompose would work on most cameras, no?

I am just trying to understand the actual usefulness of the focus peaking for real world subject. For now I am not convinced that it beings value.

Cheers,
Bernard
Logged

A few images online here!
peterottaway
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 66


« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2013, 03:15:44 AM »
ReplyReply

Well you chose a subject and a lens not suited to gain an appreciation of the normal use of focus peaking. If you want to use any 35 mm lens then try some sort of streetscape or if you want to focus on an eye in a portrait then use 85 to 135 mm.
Logged
CptZar
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 115



WWW
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2013, 03:26:17 AM »
ReplyReply

Well, focus and recompose with a DOF of 4mm might be difficult. What about this picture of yours? Could you have done it with a larger aperture and AF on the eyes? At least not at f1.2 with the 5DMIII.

I am not trying to convince anybody. I am writing what is possible. Very personal. I ordered myself a Zeiss Otus 55, trading in my 85/f1.2 and 50/f1.2  and I am sure I can use it much better with an EVF and focus peaking than with any other cam. I wouldn't even have ordered it without FP, or the zooming capabilities of the EVF. Same goes for the TS lenses I use. For this purposes the A7r has much to offer. If you need fast AF, flashes, even a descent remote control cable, this might not be the right camera.  

And by the way, I like your work.

Cheers

Jan

Wow, I just became a junior member!




« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 11:42:59 AM by CptZar » Logged

bcooter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1188


Bang The Drum All Day


WWW
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2013, 04:06:10 AM »
ReplyReply

Was out Christmas shopping tonight and passed a Sony store.

On a semi whim went in to see the A7 (I have zero interest in the R version).

Anyway, probably drove the Sony counter people nuts, but tried every a mount lens they had in the case and  also  had zero interest in the current E mount lenses available now.

The upside in this non photographic test was it focused well, as well as most optical dslrs.  Even track focused on medium fast moving people.

The camera is the exact size of the olympus em-1 and has the familiar look of full frame 35mm in fall off and lens perspective.

The menu is simple, the camera is small, but unlike the olympus, it feels better with larger lenses in the A mount, where the olympus feels a little awkward with larger lenses.

The other upsize (without shooting a file) is it's obvious that this will produce a higher detailed image than the olympus.

The Sony store said they received 9 body/lens combos in that morning and sold all by noon.  (anyone wonder why Sony rushed this to market?)

The other take I have in todays world, it's completely undeniable and if I made Nikons, Canons, Olympus, Phase, etc. etc. this is the one camera that would keep me up at night worrying.

Very unlike a Leica which is a manual focus old world camera box covering electronics and unlike the fuji aps c or olympus  micro 43 camera the full frame lenses work like the lenses we're use to without having to think ok a 25 is a 50 and 1.4 is really F4.

At first I couldn't put my finger on it, but I finally realized the camera feels less like it's made by a camera company, more like it was made by a computer company .  If the logo said Apple or Samsung it would be a perfect fit.   

Great price, great performance, zero romance.   Comparatively the olympus em-1,even with all it's electronics,  feels like it was made by a camera company.  The em-1 has a lot of olympus dna in it, the sony, more computer console.

The switches are functional, feel a little plastic flimsy, almost a little fragile.  The viewfinder is very bright, very, very colorful like the Sony 4k TV that was sitting on the counter.

It makes you wish olympus made a full frame camera, but more importantly makes you realize they don't.

Still you have to take it seriously because for  $1700 you can't deny a camera that shoots to 2500 iso clean, has a really bright viewfinder, tethers, autofocuses, takes nearly every lens made without a crop factor and shoots at a relatively fast fps.

If was picking props for a movie, the Sony would set on the designer desk in a midtown glass apartment of an architect,  where the Olympus would be the prop of a photojournalist.

Bottom line, it's really an amazing camera, even if it has the soul of a smartphone and I don't doubt for a minute it is the future of all cameras. 

This is the first camera (except an Iphone) that I've held that felt like there was zero camera company DNA left in it.   Kind of like going from an old Apple desktop computer with a 30" matte screen to a new 27" Imac.  They kind of do the same thing, but never feel the same.

This is just my take, but Millenials will love it, guys that were raised on film will always feel like they sold out.

I almost bought it that moment, stopped myself and said I might come back.

When i got back to the studio, started pricing out A mount lenses.


IMO

BC
Logged

MrSmith
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 918



WWW
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2013, 04:40:15 AM »
ReplyReply

This camera will mean different things to different people.
If I owned a d800 and shot people or sports then why change?
BC's view picks up relevant aspects to his way of shooting.
Me? I have no interest in how it feels in the hand or AF, or what the menu is like, it will be stuck on a tripod with a 24 and 90 ts-e and a good 50mm I see it as a way of having good DR while not being limited by lens choice if I had a d800.
This is totally dependent on how it will tether though. I don't want raw on card/jpeg only to computer kludges with Lightroom I want a stable sony raw tethering app with a watched folder in to C1.
There is not yet any reliable anecdotal evidence out there re tethering performance though.
Logged
barryfitzgerald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 608


« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2013, 05:35:49 AM »
ReplyReply

This camera will mean different things to different people.
If I owned a d800 and shot people or sports then why change?
BC's view picks up relevant aspects to his way of shooting.
Me? I have no interest in how it feels in the hand or AF, or what the menu is like, it will be stuck on a tripod with a 24 and 90 ts-e and a good 50mm I see it as a way of having good DR while not being limited by lens choice if I had a d800.
This is totally dependent on how it will tether though. I don't want raw on card/jpeg only to computer kludges with Lightroom I want a stable sony raw tethering app with a watched folder in to C1.
There is not yet any reliable anecdotal evidence out there re tethering performance though.


People tend to get overly excited and make statements that are not necessarily accurate.
"Game changer" "Canikon board members not sleeping at night" etc etc

I'm sure the A7 offers something different and will do ok sales wise. But with a decade of Canikon dominance, a huge user base in those systems, a camera market that's in decline. It's hard to see the A7 as a win win blows everything away product.

A lot of people who have these system cameras ie DSLR's have quite an investment in not only lenses but other areas such as flash. Nikon's excellent CLS and Canon's radio flash are very good and Sony lag here quite a bit. Optics wise Canon have a huge system that caters for all needs at all price points and a vast selection of s/h bodies too for bargain hunters.

It's difficult for me to see Sony grabbing a significant slice of those users, esp when they get compromises using adaptors. AF has been around a while and that's a key point for some users, instantly ruling out the A7 in it's current form. I was surprised Sony didn't nail fast phase detect off the sensor and offer a non SLT A mount adaptor. Like wise I expected them to do IBIS which might have sealed the deal for some.

Once they work out they get a small body with fairly poor battery life, a camera with a partial plastic mount, and they don't even get a charger in the box nor a built in flash to trigger off camera flashes, the appeal drops significantly even for A mount users let alone other mount users. Give it a few months and the hype will die down.
Logged
eronald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4200



« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2013, 05:43:47 AM »
ReplyReply


This is the first camera (except an Iphone) that I've held that felt like there was zero camera company DNA left in it.   Kind of like going from an old Apple desktop computer with a 30" matte screen to a new 27" Imac.  They kind of do the same thing, but never feel the same.

This is just my take, but Millenials will love it, guys that were raised on film will always feel like they sold out.

BC

J,

and what about planned obsolescence ?

Edmund
Logged
Ben Rubinstein
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1733


« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2013, 06:40:27 AM »
ReplyReply



This is just my take, but Millenials will love it, guys that were raised on film will always feel like they sold out.


BC

I wonder. Mine arrives tomorrow. Seeing it here:


however, I don't know but in my mind, next to my favourite camera of all time, the time has come for FF cameras to be the 'correct' size again.
Logged

wildlightphoto
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 668


« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2013, 08:46:12 AM »
ReplyReply

If you really need to position the eye of a subject in the corner of the frame, which I have not done in a single photograph I can remember, then focus and recompose would work on most cameras, no?

With shallow DOF this will just about guarantee missed focus.  Even Canon recommends against focus and recompose.  What they recommend instead is either manual focus or change composition i.e., the camera's focus points dictate composition.  Unacceptable IMHO.
Logged
BJL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5168


« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2013, 09:18:01 AM »
ReplyReply

With shallow DOF this will just about guarantee missed focus.  Even Canon recommends against focus and recompose.  What they recommend instead is either manual focus or change composition i.e., the camera's focus points dictate composition.  Unacceptable IMHO.
Another case is where there is not time to recompose, as with moving subjects. However, I admit to also using the strategy of loose framing with a camera of "excessive" pixel count and then cropping.
Logged
AFairley
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1194



« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2013, 11:30:49 AM »
ReplyReply

I'm totally pre-sold on the A7r and Zeiss zoom, gotta be the same IQ as the D800E + 24-70 f2.8 in a package 1/2 the weight of the Nikon gear and the same size as the Oly E-M1 plus 12-40 zoom (and about the same weight).  I don't need a constant aperture fast zoom, plus I like the wysiwyg aspect of an EVF for dialing in exposure, as I discovered with the E-M5.
Logged

MarkL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 343


« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2013, 12:41:42 PM »
ReplyReply

These two cameras might not be canikon dslr killers today but I think they show the gap is closing rapidly. Some tweaks like phase detect af on the 36mp sensor version, some better battery life and flash system would get even closer. The real issue remains the lens line which is limited and size is still an issue.

however, I don't know but in my mind, next to my favourite camera of all time, the time has come for FF cameras to be the 'correct' size again.

Indeed. I have got a bit fed up with 35mm format cameras being 645 format in size, at least with the D800 it is MFish in resolution. I dislike needing to own a second camera almost soley because a dslr is too imposing and therefore inappropriate in many situations.
Logged
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad