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Author Topic: Getting a Fuji X system these days. Final questions.  (Read 3721 times)
Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« on: December 05, 2013, 06:54:30 AM »
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I'm getting a Fuji X system these days and I'll have two bodies for testing this weekend: An X Pro-1 and an X-E2. Still pondering.
My current plan for lenses is to get the Zooms: 18-55 and the 55-200 mm.
In the future probably the Zeiss 12mm as well, to complement the system on the wide side.

My questions would be:

- X Pro 1 OVF: Really worth it? I saw you can't even use it for manual focusing. Against it stands the faster AF of the X-E2
- Zooms: I only heared good things about the two Zooms. Can you second that?
- Any recommended accessories? I'll probably get a grip (used to Mamiya 7 II size), Anything else?

Cheers
~Chris
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Petrus
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2013, 07:10:15 AM »
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For landscape shooting you do not need OVF. For street, reportage, action (?) I find it essential, as the EVF has lag.
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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2013, 07:58:00 AM »
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For landscape shooting you do not need OVF. For street, reportage, action (?) I find it essential, as the EVF has lag.

They say its better with the X-E2 - I'll check at the weekend side by side.
When I saw the X-E1 EVF earlier I was indeed underwhelmed.
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Paul2660
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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2013, 08:36:56 AM »
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I can't speak to the X-1pro Optical, but the X-E1 EVF is excellent, but a bit slow on refresh so a moving subject my be a challenge.  I have a X-E2 on order mainly hoping to see that the external LCD is better for use as the screen on the X-E1 is not too good at only 400,000 pixels.  There has been some talk about a bit better DR with the X-E2, but I have not seen any testing.  If I had a complaint about the X-E1 it would the lack of iso 100 in raw format.  You can get in trouble with blown highlights, and need to watch for this. 

As for the zooms, I have used the 18-55 extensively and have had the 55-200 now for about 3 months.  Both continue to impress me. 

I tried to make the Nex-7 work for about a year, but never found a good lens combination and continued to have to crop images.  Fuji has created an amazing system with these cameras the lenses are no slouch.  Perfectly matched to the bodies.  Corner to Corner sharpness, no smearing loss of saturation.    Sharp throughout the entire range. 

If they only had a tillable LCD screen. I was really hoping that Fuji would add this to the X-E2 as I believe they did to the X-M1.  (which has no EVF).

Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
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JV
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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2013, 10:41:30 AM »
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Christoph,

Two remarks:

1) if you are used to a larger camera body you might prefer the X-Pro1 because of the size.  I have a X-Pro1, don't use the OVF but always preferred the X-Pro1 over the X-E1 because the size fit my hands better.  Perhaps something to consider.  That being said, if I was to invest right now I would probably also choose the X-E2.
2) most people prefer the Fuji 14mm over the Zeiss 12mm.  I personally have never used the Zeiss but I can testify that the 14mm is excellent.  Unless you really need the additional 2mm the Fuji might be a better choice.  It is normally also cheaper but with the current discounts I believe they are about the same price.

Good luck with your purchase!

Joris.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 10:53:37 AM by JV » Logged
snoleoprd
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2013, 11:12:54 AM »
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The zooms are excellent, I have them both and use them a lot. I also have the primes when I need fast or just want to carry a single lens, etc. The Fuji 14mm is outstanding, I am a big Zeiss fan and have several for my Canon but I saw no need to get the Zeiss after using the Fuji 14mm. The Fuji is also smaller. Before there was a $400 difference in price but through the end of the year they are almost the same price, so that is less of a factor. But I would not sell my 14mm to get the Zeiss. The OVF vs EVF is a personal choice, I like the bigger size of the XPro1, fits my hands better, my wife has the XE-1 and that seems too small for me.

The Thumbs Up was the best accessory I have for it, make the grip on the camera more secure for me, and a great addition. I use a RRS l-plate for tripod use.

Alan
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Alan Smallbone
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2013, 12:31:58 PM »
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Don't like the Zeiss 12. No focus marking for zone focus.

I got 5 Fuji's. it is love / hate deal with them. Nice footprint, nice IQ, very sharp lenses, nice controls. (used to be until fuji crapped up their aperture ring.)

Hate the loose, sloppy aperture rings, terrible focus by wire, covered focus markings, bad Fuji new school fake aperture ring controls, etc. Seems Fuji tried to renvent the wheel...into a square.

I just hope someone makes a FF Leica knockoff for $2000 so I can switch.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 12:34:46 PM by iluvmycam » Logged
David Sutton
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2013, 01:27:06 PM »
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Hi Chris.
I can't see any lag in the X-E2 viewfinder. The lenses are excellent. Try one out in a shop.
I sold all my Canon gear and went Fuji two weeks ago, and still have $1200 left over on the trade in.
Yesterday I started making 17 in wide prints and they are significantly better than than those from the 5DII. The iso 3200 shots are very close indeed to the shots at base iso (you have to use a magnifying glass), and I think the shots at 6400 will be as good, but I ran out of paper  Roll Eyes  On screen they match.
David
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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2013, 01:36:04 PM »
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Thank you very much everyone for your replies.

I feel more comfortable concerning the Zooms now, which will be my first lenses.

I'll reconsider the Zeiss and do a side by side test with the 14 mm Fuji.
Horizontal viewing angle is 89° versus 99°. These 2 mm in focal length can be a big difference, especially indoors.
On the other hand - the panorama function (still have to test that - does it work in RAW?) might make it less of an issue.

I'll have a close look at the OVF vs EVF thing and the size/handling question.
My bet is EVF won't matter, though I heared in dark light it has a bit of lag.
I might carve myself a wooden grip for the E2 or make a model from my Mamiya and cast one with Epoxy.
The commercially available grips still look smallish to me.

Looking forward to the weekend. We will have storm here.

Cheers
~Chris
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TMARK
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2013, 02:29:43 PM »
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Just a comment on the X system generally:  The M9 doesn't have much on the X system in terms of IQ.  The M9 is a bit better, or rather, different, than the Fuji. 

Please report on the XE2!  I am very tempted to buy into the system.
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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2013, 02:38:59 PM »
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Just a comment on the X system generally:  The M9 doesn't have much on the X system in terms of IQ.  The M9 is a bit better, or rather, different, than the Fuji.  

Please report on the XE2!  I am very tempted to buy into the system.

I've been pondering very long on the Leica M and decided against it, because of lack of AF, lack of image stabilization and lack of long telephoto.
I'm really looking forward to the 55-200 lens with its 4 stops of OIS.
Fuji X IMO is a system with an incredibly good balance of size/bulk, system MTF, well balanced bokeh, technical features and user interface.
And the Zooms appear to be excellent from what you hear from any source.
It could hardly be better.
I'll report back next year after my Mallorca visit and my Coke workshop with Rob.
My Powershot G11 will go to my 10 year old nephew for X-mas.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 12:39:39 AM by Christoph C. Feldhaim » Logged

TMARK
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2013, 02:52:08 PM »
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I had an X100.  I loved the IQ and handling but could not get over changing the focus point with my right hand and taking my eye from the finder.  And MF on that camera was not intuitive.  These issues were addressed with the X100s, which is impressive.



I've been pondering very long on the Leica M and decided against it, because of lack of AF, lack of image stabilization and lack of long telephoto.
I'm really looking forward to the 55-200 lens with its 4 stops of OIS.
Fuji X IMO is a system with an incredibly well balance of size/bulk, system MTF, well balanced bokeh, technical features and user interface.
And the Zooms appear to be excellent from what you hear from any source.
It could hardly be better.
I'll report back next year after my Mallorca visit and my Coke workshop with Rob.
My Powershot G11 will go to my 10 year old nephew for X-mas.

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JV
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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2013, 08:51:18 PM »
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I'll reconsider the Zeiss and do a side by side test with the 14 mm Fuji.

You could potentially also consider the upcoming Fuji 10-24mm zoom:
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/xf_lens/roadmap/

The release date has been pushed to February 2014 though.
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David Sutton
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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2013, 12:33:06 AM »
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Just a comment on the X system generally:  The M9 doesn't have much on the X system in terms of IQ.  The M9 is a bit better, or rather, different, than the Fuji. 

Please report on the XE2!  I am very tempted to buy into the system.

When I opened the box I laughed so much I had to sit down. After a dslr this camera is small!
I can't see myself going back to a full frame camera in the near future given my needs (prints up to 24 inches wide of landscape and interiors). I no longer want to lug all that stuff around if I can get equal or better results from the Fuji system. So far I am very pleased with the X-E2 and the two zooms and 60mm prime.
Every system will have compromises, but I can live with the ones on this camera. Here are the things that I would like to see improved:
1) The EVF/LCD setting is time consuming to find. I want to be able to change those settings at the touch of a button. A good way to do it would be
2) Give the function buttons the ability to store an entire camera set-up as per the custom (C) dial on Canon cameras.
3) The LCD and EVF settings are not separately configurable (as far as I can see).
4) The histogram is luminance only. RGB histograms are absolutely a must. But little rgb squares as clipping warnings in the luminance histogram would do (as per Magic Lantern). I haven't yet tested how accurate the luminance histogram is with red or blue subjects.
These are all fixable with firmware updates.
What is is not, but I can do myself is
5) The AF-L and AE-L buttons on the back where the thumb sits feel like they are made of the same material as the body. That makes them very difficult to locate by touch. I will rubberise them. Contact adhesive may do it.
The above list is now with the Japanese production team, and no doubt others have noted the same things. What impresses me about Fuji is they listen to their customers and will make improvements through firmware if they can.
These are the test shots I made for checking high iso. You can't tell much from the jpegs, but the quality in print is very good indeed. They are "real world" images in the sense that I have included a white patch and have exposed for that, so I haven't been able to expose to the right and then reduce the exposure in post to hide noise. Nor have I covered up a clipped white patch with highlight recovery. At iso 3200 and 6400 there is a small loss of detail in part of the watermark. That's all I can see.
David
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Rob C
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2013, 03:22:07 AM »
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I've been pondering very long on the Leica M and decided against it, because of lack of AF, lack of image stabilization and lack of long telephoto.
I'm really looking forward to the 55-200 lens with its 4 stops of OIS.
Fuji X IMO is a system with an incredibly good balance of size/bulk, system MTF, well balanced bokeh, technical features and user interface.
And the Zooms appear to be excellent from what you hear from any source.
It could hardly be better.
I'll report back next year after my Mallorca visit and my Coke workshop with Rob.
My Powershot G11 will go to my 10 year old nephew for X-mas.



Chris,

I don't know how to break this gently Chris: the workshop, for you and everybody else, is with 7 Up. Coke is ©.

(Weebly tells me it can replace my AWOL Home Page, so I hold my breath for it to get done!)

;-)

Rob C
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Manoli
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« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2013, 03:30:00 AM »
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Just a comment on the X system generally:  The M9 doesn't have much on the X system in terms of IQ.  The M9 is a bit better, or rather, different, than the Fuji. 

Please report on the XE2!  I am very tempted to buy into the system.

TMARK, if you're comfortable with a Leica M you'll feel 'at home' with a Fuji X. Apart from IQ the biggest 'plus' in a Fuji is the simplicity. Closest to a Leica menu yet and a good 'feel' in the hand. Just saw this blog post which I think is a pretty good summation.

http://strobist.blogspot.gr/2013/12/fuji-follow-up.html



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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2013, 05:44:51 AM »
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David,
These ISO 3200 look incredibly good.
Thanks you posted them.


Rob,
I think I'll take a Fritz Cola with me - Hamburg made Cola, more Caffeine, less sugar - best Coke of the world.
Wink


Cheers
~Chris
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Rob C
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« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2013, 10:24:44 AM »
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David,
These ISO 3200 look incredibly good.
Thanks you posted them.


Rob,
I think I'll take a Fritz Cola with me - Hamburg made Cola, more Caffeine, less sugar - best Coke of the world.
Wink


Cheers
~Chris

Chris, you have a PM.

Rob C
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k bennett
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« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2013, 12:45:20 PM »
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Every system will have compromises, but I can live with the ones on this camera. Here are the things that I would like to see improved:
1) The EVF/LCD setting is time consuming to find. I want to be able to change those settings at the touch of a button. =

I assume you're looking at an XE2. Fuji did away with the view mode button that allowed immediate switching between EVF and LCD, and move the Q Menu button to the position. As I use the View Mode button all the time, I would miss that if I upgraded.


To the OP:

The two zooms are very good; I own both and use the long zoom regularly and the short zoom on occasion. I find myself shooting mostly with the 14 and the 35 mounted to an XE1 and an X Pro 1 respectively, with another XE1 for the 55-200 when I want to shoot with three cameras. When Fuji releases the 56/1.2 I'll pre-order as early as possible, which will give me my own perfect 3-camera, 3-lens shooting kit.

I find both zooms more difficult to use than my Canon zooms. Partly that's because they zoom in the "wrong" direction, but also because the zoom and focus rings feel the same and are right next to each other. So I'm constantly turning the focus ring when I want to zoom, and even when I get the right ring, I turn it in the wrong direction Smiley  This is more of an issue with the short zoom, and it's probably just me being an idiot.

I've considered selling the 18-55, but I'm keeping it for now as I'm pretty well set on selling the Canon gear instead. Once I do that, I feel like I'll get more use out of the Fuji zoom for landscapes and general tripod work, especially with filters. Until then, it mostly stays in the locker.

The Fuji 14mm is one of the star reasons to buy into the Fuji system, IMHO. I have stopped carrying my Canon 16-35 -- images from the Fuji 14 are so significantly better that it's just not worth even attaching the Canon zoom to a camera (and on a 1D Mark IV, the widest field of view is almost exactly the same as the 14mm on the Fuji.) I have not tried the Zeiss and have no reason to seek one out to do so.

If you are going to buy the zooms, there is no really obvious reason to get the X Pro 1. The OVF isn't particularly usable with the 18-55, and doesn't work at all with the 55-200 (though with the short zoom it's kind of cool to watch the OVF frame lines zoom with the lens -- until you try to shoot using those frame lines, anyway.) The XE2 has a number of significant upgrades that particularly affect the long zoom -- better autofocus from the phase detect pixels on the sensor, for example, and a better EVF refresh rate. These are things that drive me batty with the 55-200 on the XE1 and might cause me to get an XE2 sooner rather than later.

Finally, don't worry if it takes awhile to sort out these cameras. It took me several months to figure out all their little quirks, but the image quality and the sheer joyful usability still put a smile on my face.

Here's a shot from our Lighting of the Quad ceremony earlier this week. ISO 6400, 35mm f/1.4 wide open, handheld at 1/40 sec using the X Pro 1 and the EVF. The camera nailed the focus instantly. The only light on the students is being reflected from the building in front of them.
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Christoph C. Feldhaim
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« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2013, 11:47:23 AM »
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Thank you very much everyone who helped me get over my final questions and doubts!
I opened a thread on the user critiques with a set of first images from the day of purchase and my rave over this great new toy (actually its not a toy, but a very serious tool).
I, i and myself with my new Fuji X-E2 and 18-55mm on the Hamburg Christmas Market Wink
The 55-200 telephoto wasn't in stock, but will arrive the next days to complete this initial purchase.

Cheers
~Chris
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