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Author Topic: Another Stupid Camera Test: IQ 260 / A7r / 5d2 / Epic  (Read 21705 times)
Chris Barrett
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« on: December 07, 2013, 09:17:34 AM »
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So, I recently picked up this little 36 MegaPixel toy from Sony.  I call it a toy because I just can't get over it's minuscule size.  I've been testing it very casually, just going out and shooting and seeing what I get.  Nothing very scientific.  I'm using EOS mount lenses on it via the Metabones Smart Adapter III.  It performs beautifully with the Canon Tilt / Shifts... allowing it to be what I wish the D800 had been (a high MP little camera with excellent T/S glass).  The A7r actually has the same chip as the D800 (as I understand it) which Sony manufactures.  Since it's mirrorless, it has a super short flange distance and you can adapt practically any lens to it, including Leica M glass.

Anyway, here are some shots from my living room:

Phase One IQ 260 / Arca Swiss Rm3d / Schneider Apo-Digitar 35mm/f5.6 XL  *Processed in C1 Pro


Sony A7r / Canon 24mm TS-E II  *Processed in LightRoom 5


Canon 5d2 / 24mm TS-E II  *Processed in C1 Pro


Red Epic / Canon 17mm TS-E  *Processed in RedCine-X


Right away I can see the difference in the C1P vs LR processing.  C1P always seems to have snappier color to me whereas LR can usually dig out a little more Hilight info.  I set the hilight recovery sliders at 30 in C1P and LR for all the still cameras.  All three still cameras have comparable sharpness with the IQ back being a clear winner upon pixel peeping (no surprise).  I turned off all in-software sharpening and the little cameras have neutral profiles in camera.  I don't find the Red that useful for my stills work.  It possesses much more shadow noise and much less sharpness than the still cameras but It's fun to see how it blows them away on DR.  I think it was really designed to feel like Neg Stock.

You can download all the RAW files or my processed TIFFs via DropBox and draw your own conclusions:  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/coeaopdb1srglbe/jdi7ZiT4IX

In conclusion... this was really all about evolving my own workflow and making life a little simpler and well... hell I'm a big gear nerd (but you knew that).  Speaking of workflow, the only way I've found to shoot the Sony tethered is to use their Remote Camera Control software and setup LightRoom to auto import the files from a watched folder.  Lame, but usable.  C1P support is coming, they tell me.

CB
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ACH DIGITAL
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2013, 09:36:12 AM »
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Hi Chris,

I'm not an expert on procesing Phase One files nor A7R, but I did a C1 pro test. Here is a parcial of the image to 100%.



The left IQ in the screen shows standard noise reduction and the right one strong noise reduction. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but the IQ is really noisy.

As I can see the A7R (in the middle) shadows and extreme high lights are easier to handle. The IQ 260 is a lot crispier as supposed.

Please comment as I can recall some adjustments.

Thanks. ACH
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Antonio Chagin
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Ken R
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2013, 09:43:17 AM »
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The RED image looks the best. It would be interesting to see how much highlight recovery one can do with the other cameras but right off the bat the RED image had the best (visible) dynamic range by far. Handled the scene beautifully.

From best to worst (image posted which is obviously a jpg and low res):

RED-->IQ260-->A7R-->5D2

Kinda what you would expect although I wish the IQ260 would do better in DR given its a dedicated stills camera and more expensive than the RED.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 09:55:03 AM by Ken R » Logged
Ken R
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2013, 09:44:32 AM »
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Hi Chris,

I'm not an expert on procesing Phase One files nor A7R, but I did a C1 pro test. Here is a parcial of the image to 100%.



The left IQ in the screen shows standard noise reduction and the right one strong noise reduction. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but the IQ is really noisy.

As I can see the A7R (in the middle) shadows and extreme high lights are easier to handle. The IQ 260 is a lot crispier as supposed.

Please comment as I can recall some adjustments.

Thanks. ACH

The A7R image looks very low contrast, hence the softer transition to highlights which are not really that light and more gray, while the IQ260 image looks much more contrasty. I would check default conversion curves.
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eronald
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2013, 09:48:59 AM »
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Deleted. Apologies.
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Chris Barrett
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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2013, 09:51:58 AM »
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Hmm, less noisy on my system...



Keep in mind this is a 200% magnification, so I don't expect the IQ file to look flawless.  Other contributing factors:  ISO was 100 across the board (50 would be smoother on the IQ).  Also, WB was around 3600 and I find the Phase 1 products to be challenged when pushing the blue channel.  That's made me consider shooting through an 80D on many occasions.  No doubt the A7r feels smoother and flatter.  I'd chalk that up to the difference in converters.

Capture 1 profiles were set at "Film Standard"
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chrismuc
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« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2013, 09:53:24 AM »
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Hi Chris,
an additional question: How much shift is possible with the 17TSE and the 24TSE on the A7R via the metabones adapter before vignetting of the adapter or the camera mount?
Thx Christoph
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Chris Barrett
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« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2013, 10:29:00 AM »
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17 & 24 Full shift in all directions; no cutoff.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2013, 10:39:19 AM »
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Keep in mind this is a 200% magnification, so I don't expect the IQ file to look flawless.  Other contributing factors:  ISO was 100 across the board (50 would be smoother on the IQ).  Also, WB was around 3600 and I find the Phase 1 products to be challenged when pushing the blue channel.  That's made me consider shooting through an 80D on many occasions.  No doubt the A7r feels smoother and flatter.  I'd chalk that up to the difference in converters.

Capture 1 profiles were set at "Film Standard"

The use of the native ISO 50 on the iq260 would have also increased the ability to retain highlights.

Not a criticism, just some additional info for anyone not familiar with the iq260.

Thanks for sharing!
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« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2013, 11:06:52 AM »
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thanks for putting up the raws.
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JerryReed
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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2013, 11:43:42 AM »
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The leather in the Eames chair is black in the 260 and the D5, but is brown(isn) in the SONY image - that is what I see any way.

Jerry
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JoeKitchen
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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2013, 11:57:03 AM »
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Interesting to see the difference in the noise, but I wonder if the 260 files would look better after they have been processed from raw into tiff file.  I often find that the raw preview in C1 is a little rougher (especially when viewed at 100% or closer) then after the files has been processed. 
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Joe Kitchen
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2013, 12:22:04 PM »
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Great stuff, thanks for sharing.
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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2013, 12:27:22 PM »
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I don't find the Red that useful for my stills work.  It possesses much more shadow noise and much less sharpness than the still cameras but It's fun to see how it blows them away on DR.  I think it was really designed to feel like Neg Stock.
But for film work, where combining different frames/exposures as one can easily do with stills to be able to cope with bright lights or windows like in your demo shot, it's pretty amazing.
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bcooter
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« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2013, 01:17:28 PM »
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I don't find the Red that useful for my stills work.  It possesses much more shadow noise and much less sharpness than the still cameras but It's fun to see how it blows them away on DR.  I think it was really designed to feel like Neg Stock.

If you look at Kodak vision RED files seem to match, kind of the ants crawling up a wall look.

I never noticed it until I pulled a green screen key and first thought the key was off as I could see holes in dark areas like hair, until I realized that's just the RED look.

I had to mask the dark areas back into the clip to kill the noise in the darks.  It's a pain, but most things with motion are a pain.

In my REDs the noise increases with heat and unless we're running multi cam I switch out cameras as we work to keep the noise down.

I learned this the hard way.

Anyway.

One thing I've found is the Quicktime Files from the RED 1 are sharper than the cinex files and though I've shown this image before, I processed out in cinex, then matched the size from the 4k quicktime clip and laid them in which gives the appearance of more sharpness.



I also shot this medium format and technically the image was better, though I liked this pose from the RED, so I worked it for print.

BTW:  Thanks for the test.  I think the A7 file looks workable but as all things will have to test myself.

BC
« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 01:21:12 PM by bcooter » Logged

ACH DIGITAL
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« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2013, 01:33:35 PM »
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Corrections made. Notice the files were saved as tiff. The one from IQ was C1 Processed and A7R was Camera Raw. Both open in photoshop and screen shot to sRGB for web viewing. ACH

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Antonio Chagin
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« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2013, 01:40:28 PM »
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IQ260


A7R
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Antonio Chagin
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HarperPhotos
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« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2013, 01:48:48 PM »
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Hi Antonio,

I prefer the Sony.

Just look at all the noise in the blacks and the what I call "oil on water effect" in the blacks from the Phase back.

That is why I sold my Leaf Aptus back cause of the noise in the shadows. Made it useless for shooting cars.

Can’t wait for the Nikon D4x when it comes out next year.

Simon
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Simon Harper
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2013, 02:40:49 PM »
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Hi,

Thanks for sharing!

Best regards
Erik

So, I recently picked up this little 36 MegaPixel toy from Sony.  I call it a toy because I just can't get over it's minuscule size.  I've been testing it very casually, just going out and shooting and seeing what I get.  Nothing very scientific.  I'm using EOS mount lenses on it via the Metabones Smart Adapter III.  It performs beautifully with the Canon Tilt / Shifts... allowing it to be what I wish the D800 had been (a high MP little camera with excellent T/S glass).  The A7r actually has the same chip as the D800 (as I understand it) which Sony manufactures.  Since it's mirrorless, it has a super short flange distance and you can adapt practically any lens to it, including Leica M glass.

Anyway, here are some shots from my living room:

Phase One IQ 260 / Arca Swiss Rm3d / Schneider Apo-Digitar 35mm/f5.6 XL  *Processed in C1 Pro


Sony A7r / Canon 24mm TS-E II  *Processed in LightRoom 5


Canon 5d2 / 24mm TS-E II  *Processed in C1 Pro


Red Epic / Canon 17mm TS-E  *Processed in RedCine-X


Right away I can see the difference in the C1P vs LR processing.  C1P always seems to have snappier color to me whereas LR can usually dig out a little more Hilight info.  I set the hilight recovery sliders at 30 in C1P and LR for all the still cameras.  All three still cameras have comparable sharpness with the IQ back being a clear winner upon pixel peeping (no surprise).  I turned off all in-software sharpening and the little cameras have neutral profiles in camera.  I don't find the Red that useful for my stills work.  It possesses much more shadow noise and much less sharpness than the still cameras but It's fun to see how it blows them away on DR.  I think it was really designed to feel like Neg Stock.

You can download all the RAW files or my processed TIFFs via DropBox and draw your own conclusions:  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/coeaopdb1srglbe/jdi7ZiT4IX

In conclusion... this was really all about evolving my own workflow and making life a little simpler and well... hell I'm a big gear nerd (but you knew that).  Speaking of workflow, the only way I've found to shoot the Sony tethered is to use their Remote Camera Control software and setup LightRoom to auto import the files from a watched folder.  Lame, but usable.  C1P support is coming, they tell me.

CB
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ACH DIGITAL
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« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2013, 03:54:48 PM »
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Chris you have some really good books in there! Thanks for sharing!
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Antonio Chagin
www.achdigital.com
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