Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Which is better....AVCHD or MP4?  (Read 9504 times)
Dinarius
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 710


« on: December 10, 2013, 07:56:25 AM »
ReplyReply

I'm shooting on a Sony RX100.

My problem is that the sound codec (AC3) captured in AVCHD will not replay on Photoshop CS6 for copyright reasons.

The sound codec, whatever it is, on MP4 will replay on CS6.

So....

1. Which is better, sound not counting, AVCHD or MP4?

2. If I choose AVCHD, which one of these should I choose, 50i 24M(FX), 50i 17M(FH) or 50p 28M(PS) ?

3. If I choose MP4, which one of these should I choose, 1440 x 1080 12M or VGA 3M?

4. Is there a *free* converter that will allow me to convert the AC3 codec to something that Photoshop CS6 recognizes?

Thanks.

D.
Logged
Morgan_Moore
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2221


WWW
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2013, 03:34:03 PM »
ReplyReply

Neither is better - they are just encoders - but the avchd is probably better in this case as I guess it is less compressed - think jpg 4 vs jpg 2

Generally you want p not I - ideally 25p

As for getting the footage edit ready you can transcode using mpegstreamclip (mov) or clipwrap (avchd) those apps are free or $20

Usually we transcode to 'pro res' which is easy to edit
Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
Dinarius
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 710


« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2013, 04:41:48 AM »
ReplyReply

Thanks for the reply.

I'm PC - Windows 8. Am I right in thinking that Clipwrap is Mac only?

Thanks.

D.
Logged
hjulenissen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1683


« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2013, 04:48:51 AM »
ReplyReply

For video quality, you probably want AVCHD 28mbps 50p (60p if you switch it into "NTSC" mode).

50p or 60p is usually ideal for image quality on 50p or 60p displays. If you use scene lighting based on the power grid, you may want to match 50p to 50Hz contries and 60p to 60Hz countries. Choosing NTSC vs PAL neatly fix this for you.

I believe that (in this context), "MP4" is Sony code for "we wanted to provide this as well, but since it is not defined in the AVCHD spec, we will just give it another name".

-h
Logged
Dinarius
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 710


« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2013, 08:26:29 AM »
ReplyReply

For video quality, you probably want AVCHD 28mbps 50p (60p if you switch it into "NTSC" mode).

50p or 60p is usually ideal for image quality on 50p or 60p displays. If you use scene lighting based on the power grid, you may want to match 50p to 50Hz contries and 60p to 60Hz countries. Choosing NTSC vs PAL neatly fix this for you.

I believe that (in this context), "MP4" is Sony code for "we wanted to provide this as well, but since it is not defined in the AVCHD spec, we will just give it another name".

-h

Thanks for the reply.

The AVCHD choices on the camera are exactly as I wrote them above, so by 28mbps 50 I presume you mean 50p 28M(PS) ?

If so, when I make this choice, I get a message saying, "Cannot record to Blu-ray/DVD disc at 50p 28M(PS). OK?" So, what are my options if I use this mode?

Also, I don't seem to have the option of NTSC. Or am I missing something?

Finally, if I can't find a way to make the audio work on CS6 on my Windows 8 machine, I'll be using MP4 regardless.  Sad

Thanks again.

D.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 08:30:29 AM by Dinarius » Logged
fredjeang2
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 792



« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2013, 10:07:22 AM »
ReplyReply

If you're on Windows, there are some 100% free options to manipulate videos that will give you less hassle than trying to use PS that you are familiar with
but wasn't really made for.

Virtual Dub is an example: http://www.virtualdub.org/

The Pal + NTSC option is generaly a question of taxes reasons. It will make a camera be a Camcorder instead of a Still camera with video capabilities and the taxes
involved aren't the same. So commercialy it could appears less interesting for a company, specialy in the consumer combocams area so they limit on purpose.

Logged
Dinarius
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 710


« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2013, 10:29:57 AM »
ReplyReply

Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately, VirtualDub will not play the .MTS files produced by the Sony RX100, unless I'm missing something.

But, I have tried selecting All Types from the Files of Type drop down menu and, while I can see the files in the folder, I get the usual "unsupported file type" error.

Pity.

D.
Logged
hjulenissen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1683


« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2013, 03:01:22 AM »
ReplyReply

The Pal + NTSC option is generaly a question of taxes reasons. It will make a camera be a Camcorder instead of a Still camera with video capabilities and the taxes
involved aren't the same. So commercialy it could appears less interesting for a company, specialy in the consumer combocams area so they limit on purpose.
That is not my understanding. On the cameras that I have owned, switching between PAL and NTSC seems to only affect the framerates/fieldrates offered (25/50 vs 30/60). That is consistent with my post further up the thread where I assumed that this option exists to:
1. Record at e.g. 60 fps in countries where CRT tvs will accept only 60 fps without framerateconversion. I guess this point is more and more irrelevant as most LCD tvs should play 50fps and 60 fps content equally well/bad.
2. Record at the rate of the local power supply frequency, meaning less flickering from lamps

-h
Logged
hjulenissen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1683


« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2013, 03:04:57 AM »
ReplyReply

The AVCHD choices on the camera are exactly as I wrote them above, so by 28mbps 50 I presume you mean 50p 28M(PS) ?
Yes.
Quote
If so, when I make this choice, I get a message saying, "Cannot record to Blu-ray/DVD disc at 50p 28M(PS). OK?" So, what are my options if I use this mode?
Are you going to record to BD/DVD? If not, then you are home free. If you are, you may want to do transcoding (as suggested by others), or reduce the recording quality.

I prefer to record at the highest possible quality, transcoding to lower quality if needed. Thankfully, I have an old PC in my living room that will happily play my RX100M2 videos recorded at the highest quality.

-h
Logged
bcooter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1164


Bang The Drum All Day


WWW
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2013, 04:56:09 AM »
ReplyReply

That is not my understanding. On the cameras that I have owned, switching between PAL and NTSC seems to only affect the framerates/fieldrates offered (25/50 vs 30/60). That is consistent with my post further up the thread where I assumed that this option exists to:
1. Record at e.g. 60 fps in countries where CRT tvs will accept only 60 fps without framerateconversion. I guess this point is more and more irrelevant as most LCD tvs should play 50fps and 60 fps content equally well/bad.
2. Record at the rate of the local power supply frequency, meaning less flickering from lamps

-h

If your shooting, then 60 or 50 fps or ntsc/pal is only to assist in limiting practical lights from flickering.  (doesn't always work because every country is a little different and the world is covered with led lights flickering everywhere.

For editing I go through this with clients all the time.  Honestly any modern computer, or tv will play just about anything automatically with little or no loss in quality.

PAL or NTSC makes no difference unless someone has a 15 year old dvd player and a crt screen.

AVCHD is a crappy codec but there are suppose to have a new one with higher bit rate that will accept 4k but of course you'll need a new camera.   

Don't know why avchd exists or why camera makers keep messing with this when a little company like black magic can make a proress shooting camera.


BC



Logged

fredjeang2
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 792



« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2013, 05:39:46 AM »
ReplyReply

I have to clear a bit the taxes stuff.
It's not about shutter speed,
It's about the european bureaucracy that
Decided to limit the recording time for pal land
Cameras. A camera that has not the limitation
Is considered as a camcorder and they apply
Another tax regime.
The us versions do not have the limitation.
So it's up to the manufacturer to decide if
The combocam will be on this or that categorie.
That was one of the big success of the hackers
With the gh2 when they simply disabled the
Electronic limitation.
It's very similar to the fact that in some countries,
They can limit the horsepower of a car on purpose
For legal reasons. Then, you can always go to a garage
And ask the mechanic to get rid-of it.

James: the fact that very little cameras have embrassed
Prores or dnx is beyond my understanding.
To my knowledge, only Arrrrri and Bmc are doin it, maybe
A few more. And Arri is the only one who proposes or
prores or dnx. The rest is avchf....gd or old thinking P2
Or Infinity kind of stuff. This is unexplainable but true.

On a (stupid low end) show, next door, they use 5 grass valley
Camcorders with fujinons for a cost on set of a really really good
House with swiming pool jacusi etc...
I've worked once with the infinity, I don't get it.
But after all, if the production is using millionaire equipment
To film a dude making jokes in a small theater is that despite
The cost per minute, they earn money.
While on the other hand, the pressure to do more for less
Is the norm.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 05:58:27 AM by fredjeang2 » Logged
hjulenissen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1683


« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2013, 07:59:57 AM »
ReplyReply

If your shooting, then 60 or 50 fps or ntsc/pal is only to assist in limiting practical lights from flickering.  (doesn't always work because every country is a little different and the world is covered with led lights flickering everywhere.

For editing I go through this with clients all the time.  Honestly any modern computer, or tv will play just about anything automatically with little or no loss in quality.
Computer LCD screens will occasionally only connect at 60 fps. Anything else will be framerate-converted somewhere. You will get a picture, but movement will be choppy.
Quote
PAL or NTSC makes no difference unless someone has a 15 year old dvd player and a crt screen.
Or unless there is a lamp somewhere in the picture.
Quote
AVCHD is a crappy codec but there are suppose to have a new one with higher bit rate that will accept 4k but of course you'll need a new camera.  
AVCHD is based on h.264 which is state-of-the-art in terms of image quality per bit.

The RX100M2 supports AVCHD 2.0 which adds 50p/60p support.
Quote
Don't know why avchd exists or why camera makers keep messing with this when a little company like black magic can make a proress shooting camera.
The target audience of the RX100M2 and the BM is quite different.

Sony & friends seems to think that many users wants to burn BD from the camera source file without transcoding. I can't see such a need personally, but who am I to seconds-guess their market research. Being able to record 2 hours of video on a holliday without bringing a stack of memory cards is a need that I can identify with.

When you sell a million cameras at $500 a piece, you probably don't want 10% of your customers calling customer support to ask which codecs and media players they need to install in order to see their films on their OSX 10.6, or why their media-playing NAS cannot play their files, etc. I dunno if AVCHD is the solution to those issues, but I see that Sony needs to make some adjustements that me and you don't care about.

-h
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 08:03:36 AM by hjulenissen » Logged
hjulenissen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1683


« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2013, 08:05:24 AM »
ReplyReply

I have to clear a bit the taxes stuff.
It's not about shutter speed,
It's about the european bureaucracy that
Decided to limit the recording time for pal land
Cameras.
I am aware of what you are saying here, but the claim was made further up that the PAL/NTSC software switch of the RX100 was there for tax reasons. For this to be true, the RX100 would have to have a recording time limit of 30m in PAL mode and >30m in NTSC mode. Does it?

-h
Logged
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad