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Author Topic: Sony A7r questions  (Read 13293 times)
Paul2660
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« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2013, 08:04:59 AM »
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Thanks for all the feedback.  Does anyone have a link for the sony wired remote?  I am thinking I can get one and cut off the port and add it to a standard intervalometer that has the USB2mini port.

Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
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bdp
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« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2013, 02:00:16 PM »
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Paul - The remote is the RM-VPR1. Here it is at B&H:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/925709-REG/sony_rm_vpr1_remote_control_with_multi_terminal.html

This link mentions it has a multi terminal, so I suppose that what the A7/r has, but it looks like micro usb. Although I'm not very familiar with all those small sockets and plugs.

Eric - I don't have any T/S lenses so I can't comment on the quality or possible vignetting etc using these, sorry.

Manoli - The cable that comes with the A7r is only about 30cm/12" long, but I successfully shot tethered with the DNA LR plugin with a 5m usb extension cable.

I got a battery grip and extra batteries today which is nice, but a little disappointing ergonomically - it's not that easy to find the dials and buttons without taking your eye away from the viewfinder. I know I'll learn where they are automatically with practice, but the dials aren't within finger's reach from the shutter release, and you have to physically change your grip to get your thumb and forefinger on the dials.

Ben

« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 02:04:48 PM by bdp » Logged
Manoli
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« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2013, 02:43:39 PM »
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Manoli - The cable that comes with the A7r is only about 30cm/12" long, but I successfully shot tethered with the DNA LR plugin with a 5m usb extension cable.

Ben,
Many thanks for the feedback - could you please clarify a few points :

(a) was the extension cable you used attached directly to the camera or was it connected to the Sony 'multi connection' cable that comes with the A7r ?

(b) if you attached the 5m cable directly to the camera, am I correct in assuming that this was a bog standard male/female extension cable ?
(c) if you attached the 5m cable directly to the supplied sony cable, did the extension cable have a female micro USB socket ?

(c) just to clarify some previous posts, the socket is NOT MINI usb. It may be MICRO usb or MICRO usb compatible. FWIW, Sony , in the manual describe the socket as a 'Multi Terminal' and the cable supplied as a 'micro USB cable'.  FYG, below is a link to the people who've supplied me with custom tethering cables in the past. Strongly recommend the angled type plug, depending on the camera, for minimising the risk of pulling the cable out during a shoot.

http://www.usbfirewire.com/understanding.usb.right.angle.html



« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 02:48:08 PM by Manoli » Logged
bdp
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« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2013, 04:11:13 PM »
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Hi Manoli,

The extension cable was a standard 'active' usb male/female, like the picture below. I attached the supplied Sony cable directly between the extension cable and the camera.

Ben

 

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Manoli
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« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2013, 04:15:46 PM »
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Ben - many thanks for the input.

All best
M
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CptZar
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« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2013, 10:09:01 PM »
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Ben ,
    Interested in your experience with metabones adapter on a7r, particularly with canon TS lenses
I am considering this combo but concerned about image quality.
Thanks in advance
Eric

Both the 17 and 24TS work fine with the A7r. I posted an image at

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=84713.0

which was made with the 17TS.

Cheers

Jan
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derAngler
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« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2013, 04:26:15 AM »
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Hello Jan,

did you have any problems with flare using the Canon TS-E lenses? Another user in a German forum wrote about this problem, especially under tungsten light conditions and compared to the Canon 5D Mark 3 under the same conditions.

Jan
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CptZar
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« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2013, 06:30:28 AM »
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No, I didn't but I did only outdoor shooting.
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philbond87
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« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2013, 06:33:20 AM »
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The a7R works great with Canon's TS-E lenses, via the Metabones III adapter.
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bcooter
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« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2013, 01:49:18 PM »
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We had dinner the other night across from the Sony store (not a plan but it worked out).

I took my em-5 and once again asked the Sony people to load up an A7 (not R) with A mount lenses and adapters and compared it directly to the olympus.  Photographed some people around the store in mixed lighting.

Came back and was really surprised.  Now this wasn't a real test, because I'd have to shoot something that is a real project, but just focusing, trying different settings etc. the A7 file looked strange.

I purposely shot it at 1250 iso, the em-5 at 1000.  The Sony at 3.5, the em-5 at F2.  Both the same shutter though the Sony needed more light and had to drop the shutter some, so got a lot of blur movement, where the em-t had zero, even at the same shutter speed.

What kind of surprised me was the A7's file was kind of muddy and had that painterly look.  You know where hair strands get kind of mushed together and you see those strange artifacts on skin like blotches like when there is too much noise reduction.

The Olympus had more noise, but had a sharpness and depth to it.  Not as deep as my digital backs but had the same sharpness look.

Don't anybody misunderstand me, because this wasn't a real test or a fair test as I know the em-5 well and have the settings perfect for the post production I do and don't know the A7 well.

I'm also not saying the em-5 is a better camera . . . well ok, it actually is a better camera imo, but I didn't think it would shoot a prettier file given the size of the sensor.

The lady behind sony counter was knowledgable and nice and asked to hold the olympus.  She said that's really well built how much is it and I said half the price of the A7.  She said ohhhh.

Anyway I still like the thought of the Sony, don't like some of the functions, but guess I'm going to have to rent one and test it in the real world.

One thing I notice, when I was leaving the restaurant it was very pretty out, very dark and I did a quick snap hand held at 1/20th of a second of stationary objects, not people and it was dead sharp.   Olympus really has stabilization down.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 01:55:01 PM by bcooter » Logged

philbond87
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« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2013, 03:01:52 PM »
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Were you comparing out of camera jpgs?
I have to say that I find tha Sony's OOC jpgs to be horrible.

I find the RAWs, on the other hand, to be excellent.
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Paul2660
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« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2013, 03:18:06 PM »
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BC

Also curious on the output, jpg or raw.  If raw was any in camera noise reduction on? on the Sony?  As this always seems to create the painterly look to my tastes.  Not sure if at that iso 1250 if the camera might have turned on some noise reduction, (would only be applied to jpgs) but I also believe what you view on the LCD (even when you shoot only raw) is jpg. 

Pop Photo gave the A7r camera of the year, but did show a issue of noise on iso settings past 1600.  I was not happy to see that, but it also tracks with Sony on other chips that are used between Nikon and Sony.  The D800 with the same chip tested about 1 full stop better on noise and did not get to "unusable"  until 6400.  I pretty much stop my D800 at 3200.  The images at 3200 have been in the most case good. 

Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
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Mark Muse
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« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2013, 08:37:18 AM »
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I returned my A7R because of two problems that are each show stoppers for me.

1. The file compression applied to the raw files is lossy. Artifacts are clearly visible at 100 percent view as sort of an egg shell stipple on surfaces that should be smooth. While this would be unlikely to show in a print up to native size (and actually might help smooth transitions while maintaining a sense of surface), heavily working a file in Lr and Ps will make it worse and visible in prints. Tonal banding is also likely in more extreme cases since these are essentially 8 bit files.

2. This second problem is likely less of an issue for those using the camera hand held, but the problem of vibrations impacting image quality when used on a tripod is real. This was reported by Lloyd Chambers, and examples can be seen on his site. It has to do with the single curtain shutter mechanism on the R model. The A7 apparently has both and does not experience the same problem.

The first problem can probably be eliminated by a firmware update that would allow saving uncompressed 14bit raw files. Whether that will be forthcoming remains to be seen. But the second problem obviously can not. As I said, I do not think the vibration problem will be significant for street shooters because of the typical use of shorter lenses and hand holding the camera.

I am really disappointed because I have a lot of legacy lenses that I can't use with my 800e that I would like to use, and the reduction in weight would have been very welcome. I also like Sony's aggressive rethinking of what a pro/prosumer camera can be these days. I had a Sony R1 years ago that I really enjoyed using and made many very good images with. That experience convinced me that I would welcome a professional level mirrorless camera. For me the A7R is soooo close, but not quite there. Maybe there will be an A9R before long? I am hopeful.
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2013, 09:14:26 AM »
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I returned my A7R because of two problems that are each show stoppers for me.

1. The file compression applied to the raw files is lossy. Artifacts are clearly visible at 100 percent view as sort of an egg shell stipple on surfaces that should be smooth. While this would be unlikely to show in a print up to native size (and actually might help smooth transitions while maintaining a sense of surface), heavily working a file in Lr and Ps will make it worse and visible in prints. Tonal banding is also likely in more extreme cases since these are essentially 8 bit files.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your feedback. I'm a bit surprised by the 'egg shell stipple' effect you mention. I'd have expected an overly smooth effect, especially in the highlights, not structure. Tonal banding would indeed be the anticipated result when pushing the tonemapping a bit further than 'usual'.

It would be appreciated if you could post a crop that shows the effect.

Cheers,
Bart
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Jim Kasson
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« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2013, 09:44:20 AM »
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The first problem [lossy compression] can probably be eliminated by a firmware update that would allow saving uncompressed 14bit raw files. Whether that will be forthcoming remains to be seen. But the second problem [shutter vibration] obviously can not.

I think there could be a firmware fix to part of the shutter vibration (no camera with a focal plane shutter will ever get rid of it all). Add a new drive mode called "single shot shutter delayed". It can be accessed with the Fn key like the other drive modes. When the camera is in that mode, the first press of the shutter button closes the shutter, and the second press opens and closes it to make the exposure. It then opens again for live view to work.

As an alternate implementation, and, being a long-time Hasselblad user, the one that I prefer: Allow one of the assignable keys to be assigned to open and close the shutter when the camera is in normal shooting mode. If open, live view would work the way it does now. If closed, upon depression of the shutter release, the shutter would open then close, and remain closed. Live view would not work until the assignable button was pressed again, just like the mirror control on a Hasselblad.

Jim
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CptZar
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« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2013, 09:48:38 AM »
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I understood that a little different.

Start Quote:
 ...lenses in the range of 180mm on up might be problematic with the A7R shutter simply because the longer size allows more movement than a shorter, stockier lens.
End Quote

There is no shutter vibration with the A7 due to the electronic first curtain.

Concerning lossy compression he writes:

Start Quote:

..it works very well and maybe has little or no effect on most images—see explanation at bottom.

End Quote.

Can you see a difference?

What focal lengths are the legacy lenses you have? If not longer that 120mm you should't have any problems. If you really need longer lenses the the A7 does the job. But of course, you then have only 24MP and not 36MP, which in the end are just numbers.

By the way, there is  (another) interesting review at lensrentals.com.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/12/sony-a7r-a-rising-tide-lifts-all-the-boats

Cheers

Jan

« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 08:29:49 AM by CptZar » Logged

Jim Kasson
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« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2013, 10:55:18 AM »
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In another development, Lloyd Chambers has reported that the a7R shutter vibration is worse when the camera is in portrait orientation. This makes sense if the camera is mounted directly to the tripod head, or if the mounting is very close to the camera, but my guess is that for long lenses with tripod collars that the effect is not significant.

Here's my reasoning. I have determined that the main vibration of the shutter is up and down when the camera is in the landscape orientation.  Tripods are usually better at resisting up and down motion than side to side motion. You can demonstrate this to yourself by pressing on the top of the ball head and pressing on the side. Therefore, if the camera is mounted directly to the ball head, when it's in landscape mode, the vibration will occur in the direction that the tripod is best able to resist. In portrait mode, the tripod is vibrated in its less effective direction.

With a big lens with a tripod collar, the camera/lens combination vibrates as a torsion pendulum even if the tripod is perfectly resistant to motion. There's no a priori reason to think that this vibration has a preferred orientation, although it might.

Lots to test here.

Jim
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CptZar
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« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2013, 11:19:56 AM »
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Very interesting link. Thank you.

Why didn't Sony choose an electronic first curtain for the A7r? Is there any advantage the mechanical first curtain has? They must have had a reason, right?
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Jim Kasson
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« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2013, 11:28:17 AM »
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Why didn't Sony choose an electronic first curtain for the A7r? Is there any advantage the mechanical first curtain has? They must have had a reason, right?

My suspicion is that they already had a chip that they'd designed that didn't have an electronic first curtain: the one used in the Nikon D800 and D800E. Depending on the rumor that you believe, they either used that design as is or made minor tweaks. It was cheaper than designing a new chip.

Jim
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BJL
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« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2013, 04:57:10 PM »
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Why didn't Sony choose an electronic first curtain for the A7r? Is there any advantage the mechanical first curtain has? They must have had a reason, right?
The A7R lacks several features of the less expensive A7; this electronic first curtain shutter and on-sensor PD AF.

My guess is that this is because the basic electronic design of the sensor in the A7R is inherited from the D800 sensor (even if CFA's, micro lenses and processing have been modified) and so it is older than the design of the sensor in the A7.
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