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Author Topic: A7r Shutter shake!!!  (Read 22227 times)
jensputzier
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« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2013, 10:47:25 AM »
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I have just unpacked the A7r and the Metabones adapter and due to lack of decent weather was only able to make some quick shots indoors. Handheld there is no visible problem at 1/80th with either the Otus or the 135mm/2.0 Zeiss lens. I do not have a Sony lens yet. Probably there is a problem if you mount the combo on a tripod rather than supporting everything by your hands.
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scooby70
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« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2013, 01:51:04 PM »
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Couldn't disagree with you more...
You pretty much can't buy a bad sensor in a big camera any more.

I don't think there's really any doubt that Canon are not at this moment at the cutting edge in APS-C or "full frame" sensor design and whilst it's true that you'd have to try very hard to buy a bad serious camera these days that doesn't mean that they're all equal as clearly they're not, not on the test bench anyway.

What the photographer does with the kit is another matter.
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Telecaster
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« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2013, 02:10:55 PM »
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I don't think there's really any doubt that Canon are not at this moment at the cutting edge in APS-C or "full frame" sensor design and whilst it's true that you'd have to try very hard to buy a bad serious camera these days that doesn't mean that they're all equal as clearly they're not, not on the test bench anyway.

What's cool is that the differences amongst the top cameras are, unless you're pushing the extremes, increasingly irrelevant in real-world use. This means, of course, that pedantic "which one is best?" debates will only intensify.   Cheesy

Quote
What the photographer does with the kit is another matter.

IMO there's a looming crisis in the photography world, perhaps best summed up by the following: "Oh shit, I can no longer blame my gear for my mediocre pics! What am I gonna do?!"   Tongue

-Dave-
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allegretto
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« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2013, 04:52:47 PM »
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I don't think there's really any doubt that Canon are not at this moment at the cutting edge in APS-C or "full frame" sensor design and whilst it's true that you'd have to try very hard to buy a bad serious camera these days that doesn't mean that they're all equal as clearly they're not, not on the test bench anyway.

What the photographer does with the kit is another matter.

yeah, sure, fine

it's like guys sitting around arguing whether Porsche or Ferrari makes a better sports car... depends on the loose nut behind the wheel...

just as either car is better than it's driver in all but a very rare case...
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TMARK
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« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2013, 08:18:13 PM »
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My advice to people asking "what camera is best?" is always this:  just get a 5d2 and get on with it.  Make pictures. 

Not that the 5d2 is the best, just that it works, has pretty colors out of almost any converter.  Its a very capable camera, better than the people asking which camera to buy.

Couldn't disagree with you more.  As I look around various photographer websites, some galleries etc., I see more images I would call "stunning" made with Canon sensors than any other brand.  It's not that the Canon sensors are better than Sony sensors (they're not), nor that the images couldn't have been made with Sony sensors.  It's more that the Canon sensors are massively capable and not the limiting factor for gifted photographers who are very good technically and artistically.  You pretty much can't buy a bad sensor in a big camera any more.
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jhemp
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« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2014, 02:26:01 PM »
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The shutter shake was happening with the camera mounted to a carbon fiber tripod.  The issue of shutter blur was happening around 1/100 sec.  I was using the native sony/zeiss 35 2.8.  Then after researching online I came across Llyod Chambers site and he was experiencing the same issue but with the 55mm native lens.  It came down to this, I don't have the mental energy to wonder if a shot came out a little soft because of me or the camera?  I want only one variable to blame for botched shots and thats me!
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philbond87
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« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2014, 08:21:23 PM »
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What size and type of tripod and head are you using... and how are you using it?
I ask because I've not had any shutter shake issues with my rig Ė using up to an 85mm Canon EF lens with the Metabones adapter.

I don't doubt that you (and others) are experiencing vibration issues but I do wonder why some are and some aren't.
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Herbc
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« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2014, 01:29:30 PM »
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I recommend the write up that Joe Holmes did on SonyAlpha rumors, in which he got rid of the vibration in telephoto lenses by attaching a weight to the bottom of the camera when the lens was supported by the tripod.  Pretty thorough analysis, and led me to not worry about short focal lengths and handheld.
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Glenn NK
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« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2014, 11:38:40 AM »
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Engineer joke; anyone can make a machine that works, it takes an Engineer to make a machine that just barely works...

What many people don't realize is that this is what engineering is all about - designing something to the bare minimum that meets the design criteria.

Many years ago in 3rd year electrical engineering school (I later switched to structural), one of our first lab assignments was to build a simple LRC radio receiver.  The prof came by and I asked him why we couldn't do such and such.  His reply was embarrassing and one of the best engineering lessons I ever received; "You have to decide if you want to be an engineer or a physicist.  The engineer's job is to design a radio that everyone can afford and that will satisfy the user's requirements.  The physicist on a research project may have to build a "one-of a kind" radio for a highly specialized purpose that may cost $10,000, but it can't be mass produced because no one can afford to buy it."

When I design a building, I pick the elements that just satisfy the loading requirements - adding additional strength is poor engineering - because engineering is also about economics.   Many fools can over-design something that won't fail.

While we marvel at the engineering done by the Roman Empire, most of their structures were over-designed - they outlasted their civilization by a couple of thousand years.

Most of our cameras outlast their usefulness - who wants an 8 MP camera body?  Mine works as well as the day I bought it and it's been superseded by four or five newer bodies.

Glenn
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2014, 04:09:30 PM »
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What many people don't realize is that this is what engineering is all about - designing something to the bare minimum that meets the design criteria.


so what your saying is someone at sony blew it and didnít get the design criteria right, because anyone buying a 36mp sensor is extremely sensitive about image quality and resolution ... thatís why they bought the camera.
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Chris_Brown
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« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2014, 06:22:09 PM »
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. . .  someone at sony blew it and didnít get the design criteria right, because anyone buying a 36mp sensor is extremely sensitive about image quality and resolution
+1
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~ CB
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« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2014, 07:04:35 PM »
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so what your saying is someone at sony blew it and didnít get the design criteria right, because anyone buying a 36mp sensor is extremely sensitive about image quality and resolution ... thatís why they bought the camera.

Well, most people rather than "anyone." I just bought an A7r, not because I care about 36mp per se but because (among other things) I want to experiment with various downsampling options while still leaving myself with the option of making a crisp 12x21" or so print (16:9 aspect ratio). My aim is to optimize tonal resolution rather than spatial...there will be plenty of the latter anyway.

-Dave-
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allegretto
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« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2014, 09:14:40 PM »
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Oh, the Engineer who told me that line explained just like you once he got around to explaining. He just stated it matter-of-factly and it's funny when it casually comes out. Guess you could say it's about delivery.


What many people don't realize is that this is what engineering is all about - designing something to the bare minimum that meets the design criteria.

Many years ago in 3rd year electrical engineering school (I later switched to structural), one of our first lab assignments was to build a simple LRC radio receiver.  The prof came by and I asked him why we couldn't do such and such.  His reply was embarrassing and one of the best engineering lessons I ever received; "You have to decide if you want to be an engineer or a physicist.  The engineer's job is to design a radio that everyone can afford and that will satisfy the user's requirements.  The physicist on a research project may have to build a "one-of a kind" radio for a highly specialized purpose that may cost $10,000, but it can't be mass produced because no one can afford to buy it."

When I design a building, I pick the elements that just satisfy the loading requirements - adding additional strength is poor engineering - because engineering is also about economics.   Many fools can over-design something that won't fail.

While we marvel at the engineering done by the Roman Empire, most of their structures were over-designed - they outlasted their civilization by a couple of thousand years.

Most of our cameras outlast their usefulness - who wants an 8 MP camera body?  Mine works as well as the day I bought it and it's been superseded by four or five newer bodies.

Glenn
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billy
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« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2014, 09:14:04 AM »
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I am kinda interested in the A7 with canon adaptor/lenses, this doesn't have the shutter shake problem, correct? I had read somewhere in this forum that when tested against the Oly OM1 the sony A7 had a lot of motion blur to its files as well, a different problem altogether? Inherent problem with both A7 and A7r? I know the A7r has that crazy loud shutter which seems to be causing the problem, but why would the A7 have the problem as well?
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peterottaway
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« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2014, 09:47:23 AM »
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Have you actually tested either camera ?

The shutter noise is more noticeable then a number of recently introduced cameras but is to me not of any importance. The photographer will hear the shutter as will anyone standing next to them and who is paying attention to what the photographer is doing. So ?

As to motion blur, just ask yourself how many times when you actually find this,that it is the cameras fault ?
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wildlightphoto
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« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2014, 11:59:40 AM »
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... I know the A7r has that crazy loud shutter ...

I was able to try a friend's A7r a few days ago and my first thought on hearing the shutter was "what's the big deal?".  The shutter didn't seem crazy loud to me.
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Chris_Brown
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« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2014, 02:16:00 PM »
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Will someone please explain why this camera has a shutter. Is it actually a mechanical shutter covering the sensor?
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~ CB
vjbelle
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« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2014, 03:18:52 PM »
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Will someone please explain why this camera has a shutter. Is it actually a mechanical shutter covering the sensor?

Yes.......

Victor
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2014, 04:56:43 PM »
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Will someone please explain why this camera has a shutter. Is it actually a mechanical shutter covering the sensor?
Nothing new, most cameras other than digicams use a mechanical shutter to at least end the exposure, many use it for both the start and end of the exposure.  At some point in time it may be no longer necessary, but thatís how it works now.
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2014, 04:58:24 PM »
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I was able to try a friend's A7r a few days ago and my first thought on hearing the shutter was "what's the big deal?".  The shutter didn't seem crazy loud to me.
most arenít complaining about the sound, itís the vibration when using longer glass compromising image quality ...

But the shutter to me is loud relative to other compact cameras.  

Edit:  perhaps that's not surprising, since it is quite a bit larger than other compact system cameras.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 07:46:41 PM by Wayne Fox » Logged

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