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Author Topic: Phase One's Media Pro  (Read 26573 times)
Streetshooter
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« on: December 21, 2013, 01:16:39 PM »
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Hi,

I've just recently upgraded my iView Media Pro to the Phase One Media Pro. Simply because I upgraded my camera and the old version of iView didn't support the new camera. Man I'm tearing my hair out with the upgrade as it appears to be really unstable, buggy and almost unusable. Has anyone else had problems with the new Phase One Version or is it just me ?

The old version of iView was nigh on perfect for me, and I've used it for years with hardly any problems at all. I've tried contacting Phase One with the problems but lack of response from them means I'm just about to give up on it and find something else. I'm sure Lightroom would fit the bill but I'm not a fan of it to be honest. Can anybody suggest another DAM programme similar to iView ?

Pete
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Jimmy D Uptain
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« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2013, 11:53:45 AM »
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It's not just you.
To even create a catalog was a pain in the butt. I had to build it in steps a couple thousand images at a time.
Now that the catalog is up and going, it crashes, its slow at times, and worse of all the color rendition is over saturated.
Because of this, I use Lightroom as my catalog. I keep Media Pro updated on the hope that it will someday work correctly.
Also hoping that the Capture One catalog will one day work as well. It's pretty much useless.
BTW I'm not a C1 hater. Love the rendition and ease of use, hate it's stability.
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allegretto
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2014, 05:40:33 AM »
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Was not unhappy with LR5 really but heard all the buzz about the profiles in C1 so I tried it

my 6D seems absolutely made for C1 and the images are great with little or no input by me

C1 (7.5) wasn't all that stable itself when importing thousands of images to their catalogs and crashes with frightening regularity, So naturally I got Media Pro to "fix" that.

WRONG ANSWER! MP is not terribly intuitive, doesn't save settings I wish it would, and also crashes whenever it wants. For now, my solution is C1 for Canon and LR5.x for Leica RX-1 pup next to see what I get from each program. If you shoot an M240, LR5 is just gorgeous, as C1 is for Canon

Would like one program and I love the open architecture for C1. But it's slow and crashy in current form. I run a Big Mac with 32G of memory so it isn't the computer, LR runs like a scalded dog on it.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2014, 10:03:11 AM »
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Was not unhappy with LR5 really but heard all the buzz about the profiles in C1 so I tried it

my 6D seems absolutely made for C1 and the images are great with little or no input by me

You say your 6D seems made for C1.

It's more accurate to say that C1 is made (or significantly fine tuned and tweaked) for your 6D Smiley.

That is to say, the image quality team ("Image Core" as they are known internally) spends a lot of time tweaking the algorithms C1 uses for each of the cameras it supports. You the results of this extra work more prominently in mainstream cameras (5DIII, D800) and cameras the image quality team themselves especially like personally (Fuji X Pro 1) than the "aslo ran" cameras (e.g. Panasonic point and shoots). So the fact your 6D raw files especially pop in C1 vs LR in your opinion is not at all surprising to me. This extra effort is especially true in the area of color where extensive real world shooting, laboratory testing, numerical analysis, and by-eye adjusting is done to make the files from each camera sing. No where is this more true than for their own cameras (Phase One and Mamiya Leaf digital backs) where they have an obvious financial incentive and a intra-company camaraderie and favorable logistical ease to make the best result from their cameras (and it's the only camera where the software image-quality team can give direct feedback to the hardware R+D team on what hardware developments are positively/negatively affecting the final output, including software tweaks and optimizations).

It's easy for end users to assume that "compatibility" is the same as "optimized for" which is one reason why DNG seems so attractive at first - the end user assumes that since DNG files will open in any DNG compliant software that this equates to "will be well supported and give great results". In reality adding basic support for a raw file (i.e. making sure it will open and be adjustable) is lightyears away from giving full-fledged support and optimization for a raw file.

Any MIDI reader can play a Bach score, but it takes an artistically talented, technically accurate, orchestra to really bring it to life. So the basic support that DNG promises (and doesn't always deliver on) is not really that helpful to those who have image quality as a high priority - what they need is software which has been specifically tuned to make their particular kind of raw file sing.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 10:06:08 AM by Doug Peterson » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2014, 10:08:20 AM »
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C1 (7.5) wasn't all that stable itself when importing thousands of images to their catalogs and crashes with frightening regularity, So naturally I got Media Pro to "fix" that.

Sounds like your best option is to use C1 in session mode for spot-processing raw files to TIFFs which you can then integrate into your LR catalog.

That is, assuming you don't want to switch to Mac, on which we've found v7 to be very stable.

It might also be worth trying 7.1.6 as this was a bug-fix release and might address whatever issues you were seeing in your Windows usage. There is no "7.5" - I'm assuming you meant "7.1.5".
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
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Phase One IQ250 FAQ
Jimmy D Uptain
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2014, 02:53:22 PM »
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Sounds like your best option is to use C1 in session mode for spot-processing raw files to TIFFs which you can then integrate into your LR catalog.

That is, assuming you don't want to switch to Mac, on which we've found v7 to be very stable.

It might also be worth trying 7.1.6 as this was a bug-fix release and might address whatever issues you were seeing in your Windows usage. There is no "7.5" - I'm assuming you meant "7.1.5".

Doug, not to hijack, but I have a question.
I have a Mac Pro 2012.
The setup I'm using now is as follows.
1 500gb SSD in the PCIe slot, other spinning drives in the normal sleds.
I have all my OS and catalogs on the SSD and the original photos on the spinning drive. There are about 49,000 photos.
I really want to use C1 as my all in one and LR as a printing module.
The catalog has to be a single catalog. Is the possible, and if so , what is best way to accomplish this?
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2014, 03:07:08 PM »
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Doug, not to hijack, but I have a question.
I have a Mac Pro 2012.
The setup I'm using now is as follows.
1 500gb SSD in the PCIe slot, other spinning drives in the normal sleds.
I have all my OS and catalogs on the SSD and the original photos on the spinning drive. There are about 49,000 photos.
I really want to use C1 as my all in one and LR as a printing module.
The catalog has to be a single catalog. Is the possible, and if so , what is best way to accomplish this?

You can start a catalog in C1 just like you start a catalog in LR. In our testing on good Mac hardware and the latest version of C1 a catalog of 49k should be ok.

"what is the best way to accomplish this" is a big vague and broad, sort of like asking "what's the best way to organize my images?". If you have specific questions I'd be glad to take a look (as I have time) and I'm sure others will contribute as well. If you're just generally looking for more resources/training on Capture One rather than an answer to a specific question I can suggest the YouTube series, the Luminous Landscape series, and our own live Capture One Training options.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
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Phase One IQ250 FAQ
Jimmy D Uptain
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2014, 03:40:43 PM »
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The issue I keep running into is that C1 becomes unresponsive when I'm trying to create the catalog. I'm not saying that editing etc becomes unresponsive, but the
actual act of creating the catalog just isn't happening.
I have tried importing the Lightroom catalog, which failed.
I have tried creating a  brand new catalog, using the original photos and that failed. It gets to a certain amount, slows down, then becomes unresponsive.
What am I doing wrong?
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 09:07:07 AM »
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Are you using Capture One 7.1.6 or an earlier version?

Are you using OSX 10.6? If so try a more recent OS - we've seen a lot of problems with the legacy 10.6 OS.

Are you creating the catalog somewhere that OSX does permission management (e.g. anywhere in the user folder)? If so try creating it on a non-OS drive, or in the Shared folder. Or try repairing permissions.

If you're still having problems after the above I'd start a support case:
http://www.phaseone.com/en/SupportMain.aspx
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
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Phase One IQ250 FAQ
Jimmy D Uptain
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2014, 04:27:10 PM »
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OK Doug, per your suggestion, I created the catalog in a shared folder.
One of the problems may have been that C1 kept taking a nap while it was importing the photos.
After 24+ hours of importing, I now have a working catalog. I really like having a C1 catalog, but it still needs tweaking.
I'll move on to the C1 section of the forum for my remaining concerns.
BTW, thanks.
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robgo2
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2014, 08:28:10 PM »
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To the OP, I would ask:  Do you really need a catalog?  The only compelling reason that I can think of is having multiple volumes of photos that are offline but that you want to be able to access for previews, keywords etc.  If that is not your actual need, then I would suggest that you use a browser for file management.  Browsers are much easier and faster, and they do not require the constant maintenance that catalogs do.  The browser that I use and recommend is Photo Mechanic.  It is very powerful and does almost anything that I could ever want.

As an aside, I previously used Media Pro but gave up in frustration.  That is how I ended up with Photo Mechanic. 

Rob
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2014, 12:48:47 PM »
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To the OP, I would ask:  Do you really need a catalog?  The only compelling reason that I can think of is having multiple volumes of photos that are offline but that you want to be able to access for previews, keywords etc.  If that is not your actual need, then I would suggest that you use a browser for file management.  Browsers are much easier and faster, and they do not require the constant maintenance that catalogs do.  The browser that I use and recommend is Photo Mechanic.  It is very powerful and does almost anything that I could ever want.

As an aside, I previously used Media Pro but gave up in frustration.  That is how I ended up with Photo Mechanic. 

Rob

Thanks Rob,

I've downloaded a trial of Photo Mechanic and it seems very good. I understand they are also working on a Catalogue add on to go with it and this will be ready soon. I think both of these will be the answer to my prayers. No more tearing my hair out with Media Pro.

Thanks to everybody for your advice.

Pete
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2014, 06:00:02 AM »
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I've downloaded a trial of Photo Mechanic and it seems very good. I understand they are also working on a Catalogue add on to go with it and this will be ready soon.
Believe it only when you see it! Seriously, PM is the best photo browser, but they've been working on their catalogue for many years - and it's always ready soon.

If "iView was nigh on perfect for me", it's almost laughable to think you'd enjoy going back to a browser. Browsers have their uses, but are just Explorer or Finder on steroids. They only tell you what's there, not what's on offline drives, nor do they record and safeguard your pictures when a drive's gone down or a folder's been accidentally trashed or moved in Finder/Explorer. They don't help you search through all your pictures for those with certain keywords or ratings or other criteria - OK, they might if you're prepared to wait, and wait for the browser to look through countless folders and all those pictures. And so on.

For what it's worth, most of the old iView users (at least those who were active in iView's forums) seem to use Lightroom nowadays. By combining adjustment and management in a single program, LR and to a lesser extent Aperture have more-or-less taken the space that a single-user program like iView used to occupy.

John
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2014, 12:30:28 PM »
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Believe it only when you see it! Seriously, PM is the best photo browser, but they've been working on their catalogue for many years - and it's always ready soon.

If "iView was nigh on perfect for me", it's almost laughable to think you'd enjoy going back to a browser. Browsers have their uses, but are just Explorer or Finder on steroids. They only tell you what's there, not what's on offline drives, nor do they record and safeguard your pictures when a drive's gone down or a folder's been accidentally trashed or moved in Finder/Explorer. They don't help you search through all your pictures for those with certain keywords or ratings or other criteria - OK, they might if you're prepared to wait, and wait for the browser to look through countless folders and all those pictures. And so on.

For what it's worth, most of the old iView users (at least those who were active in iView's forums) seem to use Lightroom nowadays. By combining adjustment and management in a single program, LR and to a lesser extent Aperture have more-or-less taken the space that a single-user program like iView used to occupy.

John


Trouble is John I don't like Lightroom........

Pete
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2014, 01:00:16 PM »
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And that's your prerogative - just don't hold your breath waiting for PM's catalogue.
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robgo2
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« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2014, 02:44:55 PM »
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And that's your prerogative - just don't hold your breath waiting for PM's catalogue.

This may be true, as I have been anticipating Photo Mechanic's catalog feature for over one year, but in the meantime I have learned that I don't really need a catalog after all.  If and when a PM catalog finally appears, I may simply ignore it.

Rob
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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2014, 03:01:24 AM »
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I can't recall when I first heard of it, Rob, but it might easily be over 5 years ago.
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« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2014, 09:15:06 PM »
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Pete -

It is not just you. I converted all of my catalogues from Expression Media to Media Pro well over a year ago. I then couldn't get anything to work properly; all of the issues that you describe. So I abandoned it and went back to Expression Media. The most frustrating part is how every subsequent version from iView -> MS Expresion Media -> Media Pro seemed to degrade much of the performance and stability of the program. And there is (was?) a very hungry user base who were champing at the bit to hand over $$ to Phase; and yet as you describe the customer service and responsiveness on the official forums has been nothing short of terrible.

As John says (and I still use some of your scripts in iView) many users have gone over to LR5 for their DAM. I haven't invested the time and energy to explore that route yet; but I know that Peter Krogh has got some books, courses, and terrific material on how to wrangle that beast.

One thing you mention @ the outset which no one has touched on is your point about your 'new camera not being supported'. Do you need to just install a new Codec (not sure that is the correct term here; but you can set different programs for helping with the import of files)? I use a Canon 5D MKIII without any issues with Expression Media, and that camera is certainly newer than the software. I guess at this point is also worth clarifying: are you using the original iView or the Microsoft Expression Media version? I use the latter and it certainly has its quirks, bugs, and issues that drive me crazy at times but I have learned to work around them. However one issue I have never experienced is an inability for it to display my raw files.

If you are able to clarify what version you are using and what you have set to render the media (on a Win version of Expression Media: Edit > Preferences > Media Rendering > RAW > Manufacturer or Windows Imaging Component are your options here. I have mine set to Manufacturer and have zero rendering issues.

Hopefully this helps,


Andrew.
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2014, 04:08:19 AM »
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Pete -

It is not just you. I converted all of my catalogues from Expression Media to Media Pro well over a year ago. I then couldn't get anything to work properly; all of the issues that you describe. So I abandoned it and went back to Expression Media. The most frustrating part is how every subsequent version from iView -> MS Expresion Media -> Media Pro seemed to degrade much of the performance and stability of the program. And there is (was?) a very hungry user base who were champing at the bit to hand over $$ to Phase; and yet as you describe the customer service and responsiveness on the official forums has been nothing short of terrible.

As John says (and I still use some of your scripts in iView) many users have gone over to LR5 for their DAM. I haven't invested the time and energy to explore that route yet; but I know that Peter Krogh has got some books, courses, and terrific material on how to wrangle that beast.

One thing you mention @ the outset which no one has touched on is your point about your 'new camera not being supported'. Do you need to just install a new Codec (not sure that is the correct term here; but you can set different programs for helping with the import of files)? I use a Canon 5D MKIII without any issues with Expression Media, and that camera is certainly newer than the software. I guess at this point is also worth clarifying: are you using the original iView or the Microsoft Expression Media version? I use the latter and it certainly has its quirks, bugs, and issues that drive me crazy at times but I have learned to work around them. However one issue I have never experienced is an inability for it to display my raw files.

If you are able to clarify what version you are using and what you have set to render the media (on a Win version of Expression Media: Edit > Preferences > Media Rendering > RAW > Manufacturer or Windows Imaging Component are your options here. I have mine set to Manufacturer and have zero rendering issues.

Hopefully this helps,


Andrew.


Andrew I've got iView Media Pro Ver 3.0. It doesn't display Nikon D700 NEF's. I've tried all ways to get them to show but to no avail. I use it on a Macbook and a PC with XP pro and it's the same there too. I didn't go for the MS Expression Media version but reverted to Nikon View NX which is just about OK in my opinion.

When I heard iView was reborn as Phase One's Media Pro I thought I'd upgrade. Big mistake.....I encountered all sorts of problems. The worst was it managed to delete some of my RAW files from my hard drive !  I won't touch it now as I deem it too dangerous. I hate being a beta tester for software and having to pay for the privilege.

I never had any problems at all with iView apart from not being able to upgrade it for the D700. It was nigh on perfect for me. I just wished they hadn't sold out.

Pete
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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2014, 07:30:09 AM »
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Pete -

You might want to try Expression Media if you can get your hands on a copy (PM me if you can't) -- it has some of the same foibles as iView itself; but for my purposes (mainly) works. I would poke around here and at the DAM Book Forum to see if anyone is using it with your combo of OS & files. I wouldn't hold my breath on Media Pro -- it has been well over a year (much longer?) and everyone has moved on. You can see this thread (which I contributed to in 2012): http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=12634&start=15&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Baffling that the company basically gives users zero support -- imagine if a restaurant had people lined up around the block trying to give them money and they just kept them waiting there....forever.

No need to be a beta tester for them. Move on, frustrating as that may be.


Andrew.
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