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Author Topic: Recommend a wide-gamut paper for reference?  (Read 1212 times)
Some Guy
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« on: December 26, 2013, 11:18:58 AM »
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I need a "reference paper" with the possibility of generating the widest gamut possible today (Year 2013) to compare printers.  Some of my search results go back to 2006.  Surely there must be something better out there now?

I'll guess it will be one with OBCs, glossy, sucks up black ink well for a good dMax, etc.  Maybe a specially coated film base type of paper? I'm not concerned over longevity or show quality, just the widest gamut possible.

Anyone have a paper they've used that produces the widest gamut possible they'd recommend?

Tia.

SG
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2013, 12:05:00 PM »
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Ilford Prestige Smooth Hi Gloss with dye ink.
That dye ink is what makes it pop!
Same paper with pigment ink is blah.
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Some Guy
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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2013, 12:41:58 PM »
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Thanks Dan.  Looking into it now.

SG
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2013, 01:37:59 PM »
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Epson praised the x900 wide gamut in advertizing. Based on Epson Proofing White Semi-Matte prints. No OBA content though.


Ernst, op de lei getypt.
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2013, 05:18:51 PM »
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Ilford Prestige Smooth Hi Gloss with dye ink.
That dye ink is what makes it pop!
Same paper with pigment ink is blah.
which dye inks?  A significant factor for gamut is the ink set, not the paper.  I haven't used dye ink for quite some time, and while I know the results can be super smooth and you can get the best dMax, I wasn't aware you could get a larger gamut.

As far as maximum gamut, I don't know if there is a single paper that will deliver the best results for all inks/printers.  I guess I"m confused as to the need for a "reference" paper by the OP, just not sure why that's part of the criteria.

Currently both the 49/79/9900 inks from Epson and the 64/84/9400 inks from Canon deliver some impressive gamut gains over previous generation printers on whatever paper they are used on.  Hard to actually compare the two because they exceed each other in certain colors.   Output from either is pretty impressive though.
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2013, 09:40:25 PM »
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Wayne,
Epsons Claria dye.
Just to confirm I have no info confirming a larger gamut but have not seen anything pigment that even comes close to the dye on film. Ilfords and Pictorico.

Would love to have a larger inkjet with these dye inks with the added grays for neutral black and white prints.
Neither Jon Cone or Paul Roark offer it that I know of.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 09:45:46 PM by Dan Berg » Logged

rgs
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« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2013, 10:21:27 PM »
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I have a Canon PRO 100. It has the latest Canon dye inks (CMYK, PM, PC, Grey & Lt Grey). I can confirm that the Canon dye inks in my printer are spectacular on Ilford Super Gloss. It's just too shiny for me but if you liked Cibachrome Glossy, you'll like Ilford Super Gloss. At least until supplies run out.
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2013, 08:57:22 PM »
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I have a Canon PRO 100. It has the latest Canon dye inks (CMYK, PM, PC, Grey & Lt Grey). I can confirm that the Canon dye inks in my printer are spectacular on Ilford Super Gloss. It's just too shiny for me but if you liked Cibachrome Glossy, you'll like Ilford Super Gloss. At least until supplies run out.
And thus the reason for my question to Dan ... while visually impressive because dye inks achieve a gloss level and black level that exceeds pigment inks, the actual results based on the original topic are far from that.  The gamut volume for Ilford super gloss on a Canon Pro-100 printer is @724,000 vs Epson Premium Glossy on an Epson 9900 at @896,000.  Charted on color think you can see each system exceeds the other on various colors, but overall the Epson has a larger gamut.

Not sure if the claria ink would do any better than the canon ...
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 02:30:20 AM by Wayne Fox » Logged

Dan Berg
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« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2013, 04:21:36 AM »
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Wayne,
I have Color Think as well and need to find the time to dig a little deeper but I am sure your data is correct.
I also added my disclaimer about not confirming the larger gamut, but you are right that was the op's question. No intent to mislead.
So to reword, if you want maximum impact without lab quantifiable results, dye ink on film just blows anything pigment out of the water.

One thing I have noticed is the naming of Ilfords papers. There are several that are very close in name but are not the same paper.
I reference Ilford Prestige Smooth High Gloss.(a film)
I see Wayne and Richard reference Super High Gloss and see that name is used in the icc profile so I assume we are talking about the same paper?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 06:20:14 AM by Dan Berg » Logged

Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2013, 09:32:42 AM »
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One thing I have noticed is the naming of Ilfords papers. There are several that are very close in name but are not the same paper.


It can be worse with Ilford names:
One sample of the Ilford sample book I brought back from the last Photokina is a 190gsm textured, 100% cotton paper which has the following  name printed on it: Smooth Fine Art. The texture is actually coarser than 220gsm Fine Art Textured. There is also a 310gsm Smooth Fine Art Matt sample in that book that is really smooth. I think the first sample mentioned has a wrong imprint on it or the name is plain wrong.

No reason to worry about it, Ilford Imaging is bankrupt so you should find another paper anyhow.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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rgs
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« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2013, 09:41:28 AM »
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Wayne,
I have Color Think as well and need to find the time to dig a little deeper but I am sure your data is correct.
I also added my disclaimer about not confirming the larger gamut, but you are right that was the op's question. No intent to mislead.
So to reword, if you want maximum impact without lab quantifiable results, dye ink on film just blows anything pigment out of the water.

One thing I have noticed is the naming of Ilfords papers. There are several that are very close in name but are not the same paper.
I reference Ilford Prestige Smooth High Gloss.(a film)
I see Wayne and Richard reference Super High Gloss and see that name is used in the icc profile so I assume we are talking about the same paper?

The one I used was a film.
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2013, 08:25:51 PM »
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Yeah, hard to make sense of Ilford inkjet paper names.  But I don’t think the “film” will suddenly have 15-20% more gamut.  It will offer a smoother finish, ala FuljiFlex, but doubtful it can get that much more “color” out of the same set of inks.

What’s the current status with Ilford Inkjet media ... from what I last read they’re pretty much dead.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 08:32:53 PM by Wayne Fox » Logged

rgs
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« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2013, 08:41:19 PM »
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I think if you like Ilford, buy it while stocks are available. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the Ilford papers re-emerge under different brand names.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2013, 07:17:05 AM »
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The effects of Ilford Imaging's bankrupcy could be unpredictable. It may hit the production of the best alternatives too if they were coated in Marly. Stock what is left and wait for the outcome, if possible.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
July 2013, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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