Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: New travel/street camera  (Read 11093 times)
douglas frost
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 18



« on: January 06, 2014, 03:12:04 AM »
ReplyReply

I’m currently shooting with a Canon system (1dx, 1dsmk3 and various lenses) but am interested in adding a smaller travel/street system. The idea is a small, lightweight camera that can just sit in a small bag if I’m out and about or if I’m overseas, can be used if I don’t feel like lugging around the 1dx.
I have had a Fujifilm X100 to use for a few days and have quite enjoyed it, plus the quality of the files seems good (I would probably get the X100s or XE-2 if I went down the Fuji path). But yesterday, after spending a few hours ‘street shooting’ with the X100, I stopped in at one of my local camera stores and they were very keen on talking me into a Sony Nex 7. I played with the Sony in the store for a little while and found it fairly simple to use but I wasn’t able to take any images home to look at. I did like the control system and the tilting lcd screen, and the evf seemed better (to me) than the evf of the X100.

The Sony Nex 7 has been rated very highly (including Michael’s very favourable review, but he has since updated to the Fujifilm X-Pro 1), and Nick Devlin has rated the X100s as having  "the best APS-C sensor in the business".I can find lots of great reviews for both systems, but not really any that compare them, so I guess my question is, what do you all think of the Nex 7 or perhaps the Nex 6 (bearing in mind the Nex 7 is 3 years old now) as an alternative to the Fuji’s? (FWIW, I’m not really interested in the A7 – it just doesn’t appeal to me). Does it just come down to handling differences or do  the Fuji’s have an advantage in the sensor?

If I went with the Sony, I suspect I would get the Zeiss 16-70 f4. I’m not so sure about the Fujifilm lenses and would need to investigate further – I could quite happily live with the fixed 23mm f2 on the X100s.

I’ve tried not to write too much of an essay, so if you need more information from me in order to answer, please just ask.

Thanks in advance.
Douglas
Logged
PhotoEcosse
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 652



« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2014, 03:23:13 AM »
ReplyReply

I can't offer a comparative evaluation, as I have not tried all the options.

But I find that the Panasonic Lumix GX7 is a superb wee camera for street photography (my normal arsenal is the Nikon D800 and D800E). In particular, I like the tiltable eye-level viewfinder of the GX7 and versatility is especially good. Image quality is excellent - at least for up to A3 prints.
Logged

************************************
"Reality is an illusion caused by lack of alcohol."
Alternatively, "Life begins at the far end of your comfort zone."
Paulo Bizarro
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1691


WWW
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2014, 05:40:25 AM »
ReplyReply

I can highly recommend the Fuji X system. As for the Fujinon lenses, they are very good, even the zooms.
Logged

k bennett
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1477


WWW
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2014, 06:09:20 AM »
ReplyReply

If you like the 35mm-equivalent focal length, then the Fuji X100s would be the most compact choice, with excellent image quality. The optical viewfinder is very usable, too, giving it a much different feel than the Sony.

I have not owned the Sony, but I have used a NEX 7 for a while. It does a lot of things very well. Not sure about lens selection, though the existing lenses seem good. But all in all I prefer shooting my Fuji system.
Logged

Equipment: a camera and some lenses.
Manoli
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 685


« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2014, 07:31:52 AM »
ReplyReply

Douglas,

Disclosure – I use FujiFilm X-E1 & 2 bodies, and love them (in preference to the x-pro). Can't offer advice or recommendations other than to recount my own experiences.

Firstly, due to the arrival of the Sony Alpha 7 series the NEX is an end-of-life product.  Normally that wouldn't phase me but given Sony's track record of poor customer support and firmware updates v FujiFilm's excellent one, it's something I would consider.

You don't say you what the 'usage' will be, but judging by your Canon system I guess that your IQ demands will be on the high side.  2 comments that may be relevant to your shooting:

The Sony NEX series have an AA filter. The Fuji x-trans is AA-less.
The Fuji X100s has a leaf shutter and can, theoretically,  sync up to the max shutter speed (1/4000), other factors obviously considered. 2 good hands-on reviews are here ..
http://strobist.blogspot.gr/2013/05/leaf-shutter-nd-flash-fuji-x100s.html
http://strobist.blogspot.gr/2013/03/in-depth-new-fujifilm-x100s.html

The only other 'guideline' I would refer to is output.  The other cameras I use are the D800E and the Sony RX100 MkII (and so often amazed by it's IQ). Majority of my output is B&W, and I print either 10x8 (A4) or 16x20 / 30x40 (not the RX100). My IQ cutoff is 1600 ISO on the D800. I've attached a comparison chart from DxO which shows the tonal range (of both sensors against the fave rave of the moment, the OM-D). DxO don't measure the fuji x-trans, due to it not being a bayer sensor, but it's certainly no worse (deliberate understatement) than the OM - which is an m43 sensor v aps-c. Without going into the realms of minutiae, it's an accurate representation of my hands-on experience.

In short I'm a big fan of the Fuji's.
Good luck.

M
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 11:13:41 AM by Manoli » Logged
philbond87
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 23


« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2014, 08:15:41 AM »
ReplyReply

I will add to the voices recommending the Fuji system.
I have had an X-Pro1 and an X-E1 but now have an X-E2 and X-M1. I prefer the X-E series to the X-Pro1, personally. I also think the X-E2 offers significant improvements over the XE-1.

All of the Fuji lenses I have used are surprisingly good – even the kit 18-55 zoom.
I currently have the 14, 23, 35 and 55-200 and they are all very, very good. As well, I find the X-trans image quality to be excellent. Even their out of camera JPGS are very good. With the Fuji system I tend to shoot RAW+JPG, and only use the RAW files as a fall back in case the camera doesn't do good enough job on the JPGs, which the exception rather than the norm.

Like you my primary system is Canon. I recently got an A7R and adapter to use with my Canon lenses. Although I love the results I am getting with it I have not used any of the A7R's native lenses and – for a number of reasons – wouldn't use it as a primary travel camera.
Logged
snoleoprd
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 459



WWW
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2014, 08:45:31 AM »
ReplyReply

I tried both, I had rented a Fuji X-Pro1 and borrowed a Nex 7, shot them side by side.  For me, I like the IQ from the Fuji and the handling. I did not like the NEX 7 control scheme, and the high ISO was not as good. Also Fuji has been so supportive with their cameras and firmware updates. The Fuji lenses are fantastic, so I much prefer the Fuji to the Sony. But like anything it is up each of us to decide. The handling and quality from the Fuji make it my go to camera and I rarely use my Canons.

Alan
Logged

Alan Smallbone
Orange County, CA
JV
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 691


« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2014, 11:04:50 AM »
ReplyReply

No experience with the NEX but also recommending the Fuji cameras and subscribing to everything that is said above.

I have the X-Pro1 and the 14, 23 and 35mm lenses.  The glass is excellent! I also just pre-ordered the 56mm lens.  I also own the X100s.

If I were to invest right now I would probably go for the X-E2.

Other options not yet mentioned (and more expensive) could be the Sony RX1(R) or a used Leica M8 or M9.

Thanks, Joris.
Logged
stever
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1073


« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2014, 11:27:04 AM »
ReplyReply

I bought the GX7 (see recent post).  the NEX 7 is due for replacement and the selection of quality NEX lenses is pretty thin, and from everything I've studied the selection of quality NEX zooms is zero - combined with Sony's service reputation I eliminated Sony.

I did not consider Fuji because of Lightroom development questions and a previous bad Fuji experience (which may not be relevant).  If you can be comfortable with development of Fuji RAW, then there is a lot to recommend both cameras and lenses.

so far I'm pretty satisfied with the GX7 handling and the silent electronic shutter is really nice.  i haven't bought any of the expensive zooms yet, but they are clearly a necessity for general purpose use to get near the IQ the sensor is capable of (like all other APSC and 43 cameras).
Logged
allegretto
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 629


« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2014, 12:10:02 PM »
ReplyReply

Sony RX-1 is a stunningly good camera. Does th elow light trick better than any Fuji I am familiar with. Made like a tank.

Try one. The only problem is the fixed lens, but as you note a 35mm equiv is quite nice for most things. The RX-1 image is quite croppable.

it's the camera I always carry, though I've been lugging my M240 lately just because...

Logged
OnyimBob
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 288


WWW
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2014, 01:58:13 PM »
ReplyReply

NEX 7
NEX 7
NEX 7
NEX 7
NEX 7 .......
That's just my prejudice showing Douglas Smiley Smiley Smiley
Might be 3 years old, does have a menu system that may perplex - but that tri-nav control set up is brilliant.
Add to that the blindingly fast shutter plus 24.5 mp and you have a great camera for the street.
Even the 18-55 kit lens will produce exhibition quality street photography.
In the end though Douglas, it all comes down to "horses for courses" and ..... personal prejudice (AKA what you're comfortable with)!
Bob.
Logged

ACH DIGITAL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 384



WWW
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2014, 02:23:56 PM »
ReplyReply

I bought the GX7 (see recent post).  the NEX 7 is due for replacement and the selection of quality NEX lenses is pretty thin, and from everything I've studied the selection of quality NEX zooms is zero - combined with Sony's service reputation I eliminated Sony.

I did not consider Fuji because of Lightroom development questions and a previous bad Fuji experience (which may not be relevant).  If you can be comfortable with development of Fuji RAW, then there is a lot to recommend both cameras and lenses.

so far I'm pretty satisfied with the GX7 handling and the silent electronic shutter is really nice.  i haven't bought any of the expensive zooms yet, but they are clearly a necessity for general purpose use to get near the IQ the sensor is capable of (like all other APSC and 43 cameras).

I would like to know which of these cameras, Fuji, Panasonic and Sony are 14 bits. I actually have a Lumix G5 and having problems with blue sky gradation.
ACH
Logged

Antonio Chagin
www.achdigital.com
BJL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5170


« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2014, 02:45:38 PM »
ReplyReply

I’m currently shooting with a Canon system (1dx, 1dsmk3 and various lenses) but am interested in adding a smaller travel/street system. The idea is a small, lightweight camera that can just sit in a small bag if I’m out and about or if I’m overseas, can be used if I don’t feel like lugging around the 1dx.
I will try not to plug my own favorite (but I will admit it: Olympus EM5 or EM1), but just suggest that I would put pixel-peeping comparisons of sensor quality way down on the list, below looking for:
- a lens selection suited to your goals without getting too bulky: the Fujifilm X and Olympus systems seem best, but with different emphases suiting different needs.
- AF performance: if moving subjects are of interest to you then PDAF is probably required, so Nikon One V2, Sony NEX 6, Olympus EM1 or Fujifilm XE-2. [UPDATE: added the Fujifilm XE-2; sorry for the oversight!.]
- EVF quality: Olympus and Sony seem to be leading for now. (From your comments, I assume you want an EVF, not just a rear-screen.)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 05:58:14 PM by BJL » Logged
Telecaster
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 920



« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2014, 03:25:49 PM »
ReplyReply

Another thing to consider is native aspect ratio, assuming you care about making full use of the sensor. Sony & Fuji are 3:2, Olympus & Panasonic 4:3.

I have no experience with NEX but am equally happy with Fuji X and m43 image-quality-wise. The m43 cameras are quicker in operation—focusing, VF refresh, button response—than my X-E1 but the X-E2 should be better.

-Dave-
Logged
douglas frost
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 18



« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2014, 04:05:03 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks to all who have replied so far. I have to admit being surprised at the 'lack of love' for the Sony (Bob's post being the exception).

To clarify a few points;
- My preference is for a 'rangefinder - style' camera with an evf (the ovf on the X100s is a nice bonus) and aps-c sensor.

- I'm sure the Olympus EM5 and EM1 and the Sony A7 and A7r are great cameras, but I'm looking for something different.

- The Sony RX1 is more than I want to spend (plus I don't want a viewfinder attached to the top of the camera).

- The AF performance is not crucial for what I want - anything fast will have a 1dx thrown at it.

- In terms of lenses, I really don't want to build a collection. As I mentioned previously, I could happily live with a 23mm, but if I went with a zoom, I'm sure I can find one in either system.

- With respect to the Nex 7 being EOL, I don't always see that as a big negative - a new model doesn't instantly make the old one a dog. Plus, the price has already dropped substantially.

All that said, my next move is to see if I can try a few different cameras, see how they feel to actually shoot out on the street and take then take the files home and see how they look on a print.

More advice welcomed and considered. If it sounds like I'm ignoring your advice, I'm not - sometimes it just takes me longer to step out of my initial pre-conceived ideas...  Smiley

Logged
Manoli
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 685


« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2014, 06:46:54 PM »
ReplyReply

I would like to know which of these cameras, Fuji, Panasonic and Sony are 14 bits. I actually have a Lumix G5 and having problems with blue sky gradation.

Can't say about the other cameras but the Fuji apparently is, in the X-E2 version. Haven't tested it yet.

"14bit RAW capture enables RAW conversion with richer tonality."
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/x/fujifilm_x_e2/features/page_04.html
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 07:02:27 PM by Manoli » Logged
Telecaster
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 920



« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2014, 07:10:52 PM »
ReplyReply

Sony has just announced a new E mount APS-C camera, the a5000. An NEX cam in all but name. Same basic look. No built-in EVF.

http://pdnpulse.pdnonline.com/2014/01/sony-unveils-lightweight-a5000-mirrorless-compact-system-camera-with-wi-fi.html

-Dave-
Logged
Telecaster
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 920



« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2014, 07:27:10 PM »
ReplyReply

I would like to know which of these cameras, Fuji, Panasonic and Sony are 14 bits. I actually have a Lumix G5 and having problems with blue sky gradation.

I can't say I've noticed any correlation between sky gradation quality and 12- vs. 14-bit ADCs. I suspect it has more to do with individual sensor response pre-digitization. The (CCD) sensor in my old Epson R-D1 gave me the nicest sky tonality I've seen from an APS-C electronic camera. It's a c. 2004 6mp jobbie with a 12-bit (claimed anyway) converter.

-Dave-
Logged
BJL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5170


« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2014, 08:03:16 PM »
ReplyReply

... due to the arrival of the Sony Alpha 7 series the NEX is an end-of-life product.
As Telecaster just noted, rumors of NEX's demise have been greatly exaggerated: Sony Unveils Lightweight A5000 Mirrorless Compact System Camera with Wi-Fi

But even though the "APS-C" format E mount system (as opposed to 35mm format FE mount) is likely to live on, I do slightly fear that there will be less effort to produce high end lenses and bodies for it. I am comparing to the fact that APS-C format DSLRs continue to dominate DLSR sales more than a decade after 35mm format DSLR options arrived, but Canon and Nikon have stopped designing new high quality lens for EF-S or DX mounts.
Logged
JV
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 691


« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2014, 08:06:15 PM »
ReplyReply

- In terms of lenses, I really don't want to build a collection. As I mentioned previously, I could happily live with a 23mm, but if I went with a zoom, I'm sure I can find one in either system.

In case you haven't seen it yet Fuji updated its lens roadmap today.  There are a few more zooms in the pipeline as well:
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/xf_lens/roadmap/index.html

- The Sony RX1 is more than I want to spend (plus I don't want a viewfinder attached to the top of the camera).

Those are precisely the two reasons why I haven't bought one either...
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad