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Author Topic: weird "default" crop with Capture One 7.1.6, OM-D E-M5 and Zuiko 2.0/12mm  (Read 1947 times)
gebseng
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« on: January 12, 2014, 02:16:08 PM »
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Hi everyone,

I am a longtime user of Capture One, mainly with files from a Leaf digital back.

Now I used C1 7.1.6 for the first time with RAWs from my Olympus OM-D E-M5 with the M.Zuiko 2.0/12mm lens (I used ACR up to now with that camera).

After importing the files from the SD card I noticed something strange (which had never happened to me with the Leaf RAWs): all RAWs shot with this body/lens combination are pre-cropped, about 7% of the picture width and height. This is true with or without the "Hide Distorted Areas" feature checked in the "Lens Corretion" tool

Please also note that in the "Crop" tool below, the pre-cropped image show a resolution of 4608x3456px, which should be the "native" resolution of the E-M5 sensor. When I manually correct this automatic crop, the resolution goes up to 4918x3582px, which is kind of unlikely with a 16MP sensor ;-). I know, I know, the RAW image is upscaled anyway after de-bayering, but still this seems strange.

(see three screenshots below)

Correcting this is not trivial for the following reasons:
- clicking the "Reset Crop adjustments ..." icon in the "Crop" tool defaults to the "wrong" crop and not to a fully uncropped image, as it should be.
- un-cropping one image maually and then copy/pasting that to all the other images is hard, because I can not find a way to filter out and select only the images shot with that lens, PLUS with the same orientation (landscape or portrait).

RAWs shot with the E-M5 and the M.Zuiko 1.8/45mm (a lens without much native distortion) or with the Panasonic 1.4/25mm (which has lots of native distortion but alas no C! profile yet) do not show this auto-cropping behaviour.

I also dropboxed the RAW file as a .zip, if anybody wants to play around with that:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3949609/_C143865.ORF.zip

Have any of you noticed this C1 behaviour with this specific lens/body combination, or with other lenses and bodies?

BTW, ACR also "auto-crops" a little bit, but only 1 or 2 %, which is negligible for me.

thanks for your input,

Gebhard
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Paul2660
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2014, 04:00:09 PM »
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This happens with my Fuji X-E1 files also, it took me a while to figure it out, but a LR and Capture One straight conversion do not line up exactly. 

I believe this is because on these types of cameras, the lens distortion is contained in the exif info and automatically applied.  I asked this same question a while back on Sony Nex 7 files working in LR.

Each software seems to have just a bit of difference in how they handle it.  With Capture One you have to work it the way you mentioned.  And on multiples it does get cumbersome. 

Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
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gebseng
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2014, 04:23:44 PM »
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thanks Paul! Is anybody aware of a way of filtering out images by orientation in C1?
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2014, 05:22:47 PM »
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Hi everyone,

I am a longtime user of Capture One, mainly with files from a Leaf digital back.

Now I used C1 7.1.6 for the first time with RAWs from my Olympus OM-D E-M5 with the M.Zuiko 2.0/12mm lens (I used ACR up to now with that camera).

After importing the files from the SD card I noticed something strange (which had never happened to me with the Leaf RAWs): all RAWs shot with this body/lens combination are pre-cropped, about 7% of the picture width and height. This is true with or without the "Hide Distorted Areas" feature checked in the "Lens Corretion" tool.

Hi Gebhard,

Have you tried setting the Distortion slider to 0% ?

Cheers,
Bart
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2014, 06:11:44 PM »
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If desired...

In the [Lens Correction] tool of the [Lens Correction] tab select the small downward triangle and opt to "Disable Default Lens Correction" .
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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Paul2660
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2014, 06:19:08 PM »
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+1 to Doug's suggestion.  It's what I do with Fuji files in C1

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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gebseng
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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2014, 05:54:38 AM »
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Thanks  for all of your input!

I also filed a case with Phase One support, and they gave me the answer that "...this is added as many users and lenses are suffering from distortion that leaves images unuseable on the edges and will have to be cropped/corrected anyway..."

When I disable the default lens correction in the lens correction tooltab, as suggested by Doug, the image is distorted of course.
Now when I choose 100% lens correction manually for one file, C1 again applies an auto precrop that is much narrower than necessary.

I still don't get it. Once again, of course the image has to be cropped after correction for distortion, but why so much more than necessary?

Of course this is not a real problem with single images, but in a professional production environment, where I have to process dozens, often hundreds of photos per week, this seems very tedious and unnecessary.

best,

Gebhard
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2014, 06:35:12 AM »
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The crop applied is exactly what is needed for the same aspect ratio in the post corrected scene - nothin more.

Your lens jus has more distortion than you think it does.

If you wish you can use the crop tool "crop outside" to allow you to leave black where there isn't any scene (after correction" or you can recrop to a new aspect ratio if maintaining more of the vertical or more of the horizontal is more important to you than maintaining aspect ratio. These changes can be saved into a style and applied at import if desired.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
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Phase One IQ250 FAQ
gebseng
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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2014, 07:26:43 AM »
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Good morning Doug, thanks for the reply!

Sorry for obsessing about this, I really like C1 otherwise...

I ask you to take another close look at the screenshot below. It shows the "autocrop", which leaves a certain percentage of the corrected image unused. I added the red lines for better visibility, they show what is "lost" without good reason, in my opinion.

As you can see with my sample image, this makes composition just a little harder sometimes.

Please also not the other three screenshots I attached: The first is directly from the OM-D E-M5 rear lcd, the second from Apples very own preview app, the third Adobe Camera Raw. Note that all but C1 show a distortion-corrected image, but still manage to NOT crop more than necessary.

Again, no biggie for most users, but problematic in a working environment with high throughput (because, as far as I can see, there is no way to correct this with a simple batch or copy/past operation, because C1 does not allow to filter out images shot with a specific lens AND a specific orientation).

best,

Gebhard
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 07:29:57 AM by gebseng » Logged
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2014, 07:48:05 AM »
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This does look a bit strange with your further screen grabs.

Can you move the crop (using the crop cursor) in any direction?

Send that screen grab in your support case. 99% of the time someone complains about automatic cropping the issue is they don't understand post-distortion geometry (understandable, it's a bit obscure). But it seems maybe in this case it is something else, maybe a bug.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
gebseng
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2014, 07:53:48 AM »
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Thanks Doug! I will send the screen grabs to P1 support.
Yes, moving the crop to show the full image is no problem at all, but as I pointed out, just not very convenient with hundreds of images  Wink
And copy/past to apply a new crop to all of them seems not possible, because in one Session I have files shot with different lenses and orientations.

best,

Gebhard

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