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Author Topic: Samyang Cine Lenses  (Read 2790 times)
stever
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« on: January 15, 2014, 05:18:01 PM »
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Are the distance markings on the cine lenses accurate?  I tried 2 copies of the 14mm photo lenses and the marked distances were so wildly inaccurate that preset zone focusing was impractical even with the huge depth of field.
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michael
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2014, 08:57:41 PM »
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I think there's a lot of sample variation.

The best technique is to visually pre-focus, and if you use a follow-focus device, mark the points with a grease pen.

Expensive cine lenses can be set by a tape measure – that's what cinematographers have always done. But with lenses in this price range I wouldn't trust the markings without extensive testing of each particular lens.

Michael
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Sareesh Sudhakaran
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2014, 10:01:52 PM »
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Are the distance markings on the cine lenses accurate? 

No. The Samyangs (Rokinons/Bowers) are to cine lenses as decaf is to coffee. What you get with real cine lenses:

  • Weather sealing
  • Solid, rugged construction to ensure performance across demanding situations, including rental knocks
  • Totally reliable markings
  • Uniform filter threads
  • Uniform T-stop performance so you can match lighting
  • Matching image characteristics so you can match shots without worrying
  • Solid PL mount that exchanges electronic lens data, including those required for VFX work
  • Uncompromising optical performance
  • A full range of focal lengths - from wide to telephoto - all available as a single purchase

The Samyangs offer excellent value for money, and do what they do well. It's what they don't do that makes the difference.
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2014, 05:41:30 AM »
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Thank you Michael for clarifying the cine lens issue.
I am dipping my toes into the movie world with my Leica M on a tripod.
My Leica lenses (21, 50, 90mm) all work well. I do not feel the need for the cine lens functions that you discuss.
I have been using live view to adjust aperture or focusing while filming. Happy with the results.
I'm using Apple iMovie for editing.
I am now hooked in movie and plan to go deeper into it.
The main limitation for me is not the lenses, but the lack of Dynamic range.
I know that is another story. I hope to read more of your thoughts on that subject in due course.
I look forward to your report on using the Blackmagic camera, with its broad dynamic range.
Goff

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MarkL
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2014, 06:54:48 AM »
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Do you know if these lenses also maintain the size of things when focus is changed? With still lenses you can't really rack focus without the sizes of things changing and it looking really weird.

I suspect the answer is that this is another thing that is the domain of very epxensive cine lenses...
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2014, 07:04:23 AM »
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I tried 2 copies of the 14mm photo lenses and the marked distances were so wildly inaccurate that preset zone focusing was impractical even with the huge depth of field.
A well documented problem. It seemed that there is either poor quality control on this issue or just a faulty batch depending on what you read. Most recent reports suggest the isssue doesn't effect current models in the sales chain.
There's a DIY fix for it published on the web that's not too difficult if your dealer won't accept a return.
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2014, 09:07:09 AM »
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the article has to be corrected to properly give credit to the actual manufacturer (not just a brand), which is Samyang vs just "brands" like Bower or Rokinon.
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Richowens
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2014, 09:40:14 AM »
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From the article;

  So, now that you understand what a cine lens is, and why, and what they can cost, here's an alternative. Quite an inexpensive alternative. Samyang, a budget lens maker from Korea has taken five of their still camera lenses, in Canon EOS, Nikon F, Sony E mount and MFT, and made them into cine versions. These lenses are sold around the world under different brand names – Bower, Rikonon and Samyang. These are all essentially identical, other than for some small cosmetic differences, packaging and warranty.

  I think it is clear enough.

 Rich
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stever
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2014, 10:55:25 AM »
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I was aware of the documented problem and the lenses I tried were fairly recent - so my conclusion is sloppy quality control and/or a design that's difficult to control.  also aware of the fix and didn't want to screw around with it.  grease pencil or not, seems to me that the extra price for cine lenses should at least get accurate distance markings
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2014, 11:42:36 AM »
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From the article;

  So, now that you understand what a cine lens is, and why, and what they can cost, here's an alternative. Quite an inexpensive alternative. Samyang, a budget lens maker from Korea has taken five of their still camera lenses, in Canon EOS, Nikon F, Sony E mount and MFT, and made them into cine versions. These lenses are sold around the world under different brand names – Bower, Rikonon and Samyang. These are all essentially identical, other than for some small cosmetic differences, packaging and warranty.

  I think it is clear enough.

 Rich

I saw that, but the article title has to be about Samyang in the first place and not "Bower"... the mere fact the B&H might not be selling Samyang lenses marked as Samyang does not warrant putting "Bower" into any prominent spot at all...  along may be with a link to the manufacturer's website just in case = http://www.syopt.co.kr/en/camera/photo.php
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 11:46:40 AM by Vladimirovich » Logged
michael
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2014, 12:05:55 PM »
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the article has to be corrected to properly give credit to the actual manufacturer (not just a brand), which is Samyang vs just "brands" like Bower or Rokinon.

Humm. Let's see. Here's what I wrote in the article....

Samyang, a budget lens maker from Korea has taken five of their still camera lenses, in Canon EOS, Nikon F, Sony E mount and MFT, and made them into cine versions. These lenses are sold around the world under different brand names – Bower, Rikonon and Samyang. These are all essentially identical, other than for some small cosmetic differences, packaging and warranty.

Or did you miss that paragraph?

Michael.
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NancyP
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2014, 06:24:14 PM »
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Concerning cine vs stills versions of the SamBowRokProOpVi lenses: These are great deals for cinema-on-a-budget, but for a while there has been a thriving interest in getting 40 year old all-manual film camera lenses and taking them apart to the level of the aperture ring, then removing the ball bearing mechanism that provides the "clicks" at specific f/ stops. The ring then rotates without pausing at the marked f/stop. There are plenty of instructions on manual focus forums and other sites.
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2014, 08:17:08 PM »
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Humm. Let's see. Here's what I wrote in the article....

Samyang, a budget lens maker from Korea has taken five of their still camera lenses, in Canon EOS, Nikon F, Sony E mount and MFT, and made them into cine versions. These lenses are sold around the world under different brand names – Bower, Rikonon and Samyang. These are all essentially identical, other than for some small cosmetic differences, packaging and warranty.

Or did you miss that paragraph?

Michael.

no, see a note about the title of the article... it really has to be "Samyang Cine Lenses (also sold rebranded as Rokinon / Bower / etc)", because you agree that they all __Samyang__ lenses... looks minor, but the Korean company deserves to properly credited.
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dng88
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2014, 03:51:43 PM »
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no, see a note about the title of the article... it really has to be "Samyang Cine Lenses (also sold rebranded as Rokinon / Bower / etc)", because you agree that they all __Samyang__ lenses... looks minor, but the Korean company deserves to properly credited.

Have not read the article yet but my first reaction is to the title in what is new ... Is that sam ... Sorry mic not on your side. 
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michael
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« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2014, 06:42:43 PM »
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Good grief. What is wrong with some of you?

I bought Bower lenses. I tested Bower lenses. I used Bower lenses.

I wrote an article about Bower lenses.

Then, because I wanted people to know that these were available as, and were also made by Samyang, I added Samyang and Rokinon not only to the title, and also provided a complete description of the lenses' origin.

Good freekin' grief.

I'll stop writing now because if I said what I really think I'd regret it in the morning. Angry

Michael

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Telecaster
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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2014, 10:06:26 PM »
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Pedantry run amok.

I think it's great these lenses exist regardless of what name they're branded with. I'll bet there are plenty of aspiring filmmakers/cinematographers who'll look at the specs and the prices and say to themselves, "I can swing that." And off they'll go!

I'll also bet they won't give a shit which company makes the lenses either.

-Dave-
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michael
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2014, 08:40:52 AM »
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"Pedantry run amok."

Indeed. In another current thread here people are discussing the quality of the HTML code underlaying this site, because some of them don't care for the colour scheme and look.

I think I liked the world better before the internet. Cry

Michael
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2014, 10:04:18 AM »
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Hi,

No Internet, no Luminous Landscape…

Perhaps, Internet is no so bad at all…

I happen to have one of those Samyang/Rokinon/Bower lenses, here are some images: http://echophoto.smugmug.com/Technical/Samyang-1428/35906668_bhQ3tS#!i=3014291223&k=J7fw6ng

Best regards
Erik



I think I liked the world better before the internet. Cry

Michael

« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 10:38:48 AM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

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