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Author Topic: Sony 4K  (Read 950 times)
KevinA
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« on: January 16, 2014, 02:20:00 AM »
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I've been looking at the two Sony 4K camcorders then I spotted the consumer model (http://www.sony.co.uk/product/cam-high-definition-on-memory-stick/fdr-ax100e?cpint=15044700).
 The consumer model has a 1inch sensor where as the pro versions have a 1/2.3. I know the pro codecs bit rates etc are much better. But would those more robust codecs make up for the extra noise the smaller sensor must produce?
Not knowing much about video cameras I would like an opinion from the experts here, what really matters with these video camera that effects the end result?
camera link http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/sony_pxw_z100
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 03:42:09 AM by KevinA » Logged

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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2014, 03:12:19 AM »
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Can you link to the other cams?

We are all video newbs here Smiley

Compression ruins images. It seems that 50mbs is kind of the minimum of half-decentness for HD, which one could extrapolate that 200mbs would be the minimum half-decentness with 4k if 4k is your final target.

One could guess that at less than 200mbs the codec will be the limiting factor?

Now at 6400+ISO which you may or may not have an interest in I guess noise might be the limiting factor.

Ultimately IMO usability of a camera will outweigh almost all image quality factors anyway.

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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KevinA
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2014, 03:41:40 AM »
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A link to one of the other cameras http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/sony_pxw_z100
My target is HD, I want the 4k to crop for stabilising the image on bumpy days and long lens shots. I am shooting from aircraft and I will be using gyros. I just need to make 10-20 second clips to sell from my library. I'm not happy with results from my DSLR, my subjects are all sharp edged, I just don't see sharp edges from my Canon, even on the ground on a tripod. It all looks soft, add in some post stabilisation and I think it becomes very iffy.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 03:48:11 AM by KevinA » Logged

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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2014, 05:08:39 AM »
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I think you/we need to mug up on sensor sizes, the camera linked is not 2/3 (the ENG standard - considered quite 'big') but 1/2.33* which is .42 of an inch compared to .66 of an inch for the 2/3 ENG cam? or if the first cam you linked to has a one inch sensor (what is that?) it might indeed be significantly bigger and indeed better in low light.. but for sure the zoom range will be loads less, which of course may not matter for your application..


*sony seem to have picked the 1/2.33 size on purpose to confuse because most 1/3 cam ops aspire to a 2/3 cam, 2/3 cams are like this.. http://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/sony_hdw-f900r
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 05:12:45 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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KevinA
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2014, 06:11:59 AM »
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Isn't that what I said? 1/2.3 :-)
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2014, 07:58:42 AM »
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There you go then!

Honestly maybe just go and test them out in a shop?

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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bill t.
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2014, 11:47:56 AM »
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I attended a videographer's presentation about his recent work with the Sony PXW-Z100, which has a slightly larger form factor at about 3x the price.  With the theater's very high quality 4k projection system the on-screen image quality was mind-boggling good!  One in a while you could see some lens issues towards the edges, but those were very much overwhelmed by the superb color and tonality.

I took a few notes.  He felt 4:2:2  was the absolute minimum that was worthy of the format, and his favored bit rate would fill up a 32gb XQD in something less than 10 minutes which seems incredible but I'm pretty sure I got that right!  He quipped that he felt he had been given the camera for a token fee compared to what he spent on XQD cards.  His rational for buying the prosumer Z100 was to look like a tourist geek, versus a pro suitable for nay-saying and dollar-milking by local authorities.

The AX100E seems to have a much lower data rate.  If one is going to deliver 4K, where the message is largely the image quality, the question is how much compromise should be allowed.  Shouldn't you just go for it all the way?

Have recently looked at some 4k->1080P reductions on the internet.  Maybe that's all the rationale you need for 4K, for the most part those reductions look terrific.  (takes a few seconds for the codec to catch up on that clip).
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 12:00:14 PM by bill t. » Logged
KevinA
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2014, 01:51:10 PM »
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It would be nice to see some footage when the Sun isn't out. All that bright light hitting the sensor must help it look good. But yes on my Retina display laptop that's another league away from what I've been getting,
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