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Author Topic: Editing 4K  (Read 1607 times)
KevinA
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« on: January 17, 2014, 02:33:35 AM »
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On my quest to see if 4K is workable, I need to know which computer hardware is up to the task. I had a discussion with a specialist the other day. He thought my Macbook with a thunderbolt raid would just about cope. Output would take some time though.
I'm not entirely convinced. So I would like to simulate 4K with still images. I want to select a large number of still images, reduce each down to 4K size and edit them as footage. The sequence will be a nonsense, it's just data rate handling i'm after.
How do I convert a number of images to be seen as video footage and not individual jogs?
Cheers.
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Kevin.
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2014, 09:18:23 AM »
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Quick time 7 can 'open image sequence' which you can then export as a movie.

Also 'editing' 4k is a flexible term

There are various workflows that will have you working with 'proxies' (easy to edit) and the final o/p will done from the core 4k files - only the final export will be slower.

The easiest workflows will I guess need a heavy hitting computer..

S

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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
fredjeang2
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2014, 08:46:40 PM »
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On my quest to see if 4K is workable, I need to know which computer hardware is up to the task. I had a discussion with a specialist the other day. He thought my Macbook with a thunderbolt raid would just about cope. Output would take some time though.
I'm not entirely convinced. So I would like to simulate 4K with still images. I want to select a large number of still images, reduce each down to 4K size and edit them as footage. The sequence will be a nonsense, it's just data rate handling i'm after.
How do I convert a number of images to be seen as video footage and not individual jogs?
Cheers.

You don't need to edit in 4k.
You can edit in hd.
After edit is booked you can conform to 4k,
For ex with Resolve. So the computer power you
Need is linked to the recommended specs of
The applications involved, in my example Resolve.

Once your IS is into the editor, it can be converted or directly
Or using another app, depending on the system, but
You'd need to know for what. What will be your output?
Broadcast? No 4k then. So you'd need to know the specs
Of the delivery precisely and do a simulation.
Even with powerfull computer, it's generally done during
The night when workers are asleep.

If you want to edit and color 4k in real time, you need cutting edge
Equipment, as Morgan pointed.

Best luck.

   
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KevinA
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2014, 04:28:08 AM »
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OK. I understand that I probably need to move to premier as it supports the Sony codec, FC X I would have to convert to prores which creates larger files. Just checking then, does Premier create the proxy or is that a third party job?
I'm not looking to create all singing and dancing productions, just clips. Is Premier the best route? I'm Mac based.
Thanks.
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Kevin.
fredjeang2
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2014, 06:21:07 PM »
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OK. I understand that I probably need to move to premier as it supports the Sony codec, FC X I would have to convert to prores which creates larger files. Just checking then, does Premier create the proxy or is that a third party job?
I'm not looking to create all singing and dancing productions, just clips. Is Premier the best route? I'm Mac based.
Thanks.

If you are Mac based there are several options.

- If you don't target profesional activity, big volume, cine...forget Avid. (harsh learning curve, need of Resolve)
- Premiere is a pain-in-the-ass editor (IMO) but the key point is the suite with After-Effects (but: do you need AE?)

So

- If you are engineer orientated and relatively wealthy: Autodesk Smoke is a great choice (one of the very very few all-in-one App, about 4.000euros): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TWoZ-gQvTI

But in the end

- FCPx is IMO your best bet, honestly. It might have been a badly borned duck but it's probably the best option for serious home production.

and also Lightworks (50euros/year) that was supposed to be ready for Mac this year, check it, it's a great editor. http://nofilmschool.com/2013/04/lightworks-beta-mac-os-demonstrated-nab/

ps: I don't know PP about the proxy because I hate it and do not use it. Edius creates proxies in batch and you just can switch between proxy and fullres with a simple button in real time. You can create proxies while you work without slowdown. Avid's proxies are in fact Avid native's DNx in the flavour you choose, in general 36 (why need more if it's for editing) and then you just relink to the source material. But beware of your folders organization.
Keep in mind that if RAW is involved, like Red, Premiere, Edius, and Avid just read the source settings of the RAW and even if you work in HD you really do not need to create proxies. The problem is not there, the problem is when you want to conform to 4K and-or edit and color 4K in real time.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 06:48:57 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
fredjeang2
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2014, 07:38:41 AM »
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I'd like to add a note:
Honestly, with distance and a little more experience,
If I had now to choose a system from scratch (no pun intended),
My choice would be Autodesk Smoke. And I tell you why.

I think that if you're serious in motion, it's worth every
Euros of its 4000.
The learning curve is serious but, and it's a very important
But, once you get skilled with it, there is no more app
To learn and it would cover 99% of all the post-prod
Situations you might ever need in a high-end config.

There is currently no other similar option in the market
Today and that my friend is a time saver as well as peace
Of mind. No more roundtrippings, no more plug-in hunting,
Stability, professionality, and highly sellable if you
Want to freelance.
While Adobe and Avid have gone the "mess route",
Smoke is exactly the opposite: complex to master first,
But later you'll be eternaly gratefull.
The price seems high but in fact it's not considering
What is capable to acheive and how fast changes can
Be done in real time in front of the client.

Now with more experience in post, ı'd go Autodesk.
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Manoli
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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2014, 07:58:25 AM »
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Fred,
Thanks for the heads-up. Just checked Autodesk web site and it lists Smoke, from what I can see, as Mac only. Isn't that a risk in today's climate ? There are many threads about pros considering a move back to Windows - mainly for hardware reasons ..

ps
price from several online retailers is about $3,500 / 2,600
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2014, 10:54:19 AM »
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Fred,
Thanks for the heads-up. Just checked Autodesk web site and it lists Smoke, from what I can see, as Mac only. Isn't that a risk in today's climate ? There are many threads about pros considering a move back to Windows - mainly for hardware reasons ..

ps
price from several online retailers is about $3,500 / 2,600

Some time ago, I followed a debate on
A specialized forum of Smoke users.
They were barkin,,not because they were
Underpowered on Macs, but because they
Could access to much more if there was a pc
Version. Many were pushing Autodesk to provide
A pc version because of the Macs deprofesionalization.

But...

Mac is a cult brand. Like Red. Try to go in the Red
Forum and point that the Scarlet is a so so camera...
They will hang you up in a second. You actually will
Be banned.
So whatever Mac does, they could come with the
Crappiest stuff that clever people will always be
In Halleluia extasis and will never dare to switch
To peecees because they think it's only for
Horny secretaries bying online their pink lipstick.
Mac will survive whatever they do and many users
Will prefer to stay underpowered than switching.
Look what is happening with fcp7.

Autodesk has always been a peecee brand except
For Smoke. That's because Smoke targets a niche
Market that is packed with Macs. If it changes
In the future, it makes no doubt that Smoke will be
Available for pc.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 11:02:24 AM by fredjeang2 » Logged
KevinA
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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2014, 02:41:01 AM »
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The performance I have heard of the new Mac Pro is quite remarkable.
The problem I have with a PC is the same now as ever, it's always been a collection of a box of bits sold on price. That and windows 8 is awful. I have two PC machines for stuff and work is done on a Mac. The PC's are bought because they are the tools for the job, but give me a Mac any day over Windows 8, give me OS9 over W8. One program I run on the PC would never be allowed to exist in it's archaic form on the Apple platform.
If the solution needs to be a PC then that is what I will do, but if it can be done on a Mac even if it costs a bit more, I'l take the Mac route.
Fred remember what a smart phone was before the iPhone? if you can't remember I'l tell ya, it was unusable.
Cheers Fred your advice as always is most welcome, I'l need a lot more convincing that a PC has stopped being just plain annoying to work with. If it turns out to be the best solution of course I would go with it.
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Kevin.
fredjeang2
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2014, 07:14:23 AM »
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I do not know about the iphones, I've never
Felt attracted by any of those, androids or iphones
Because I'm more a blackberry mind if I can say
It this way. As for a personal post-prod house,
Mac is vastly superior to peecees. It is simplier,
It has great performance and they are built very
Well. One day my old ibook falled on the floor just
In a corner, heard a big "boom", nothing, not
Even a scratch. If a pc it would have
Been destroyed.
Peecees require some knowledge that is not
Necessary on Macs to get the best of them.
they need to be configurated very well, Mac
Provides quality, stability, and a more intuitive
Interface and also some design, they look pretier.
I would say that peecees are really superior if
Installed by profesionals and with the OS configured.  
But yeah, Macs are the safiest route for many of
Us. I wouldn't complain to have a Smoke unit
On a Mac Pro. But I wouldn't complain either to
Have the same Smoke on a high-end pc station.
Windows 8...yeah, not matured, better stay with
The 7. Imo. Whatever software and OS that simplify
The workflow is all I'd look for. The key point for
Me is stability and no roundtrippings. If a task that
Takes 1 day can be done in a few hours, without
Loosing time in chasing what's missing, in cumulating
Softwares, in looking for dit solutions in internet,
To resume: to avoid the wild west, i bite.

I'm lookin at Avid, to PP etc...and all I see is a big mess.
You always need something more to be fully operative
And cover all territories. And that also need cumulating
Learning curves on different interfaces that will have
To be actualized constantly. Now I'm looking at Smoke
And I see a serious all-in-one, very professional tool,
And when mastered you just actualize one software. It's cleaner,
Faster, cost and time effective. And in front of a client,
Opening Smoke is more impressive than a PP and
Changes can be done in real time without the need to
Roundtrip live.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 07:24:41 AM by fredjeang2 » Logged
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