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Author Topic: Playing with Speedlights  (Read 3698 times)
cjogo
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« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2014, 06:00:03 PM »
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I agree with you cjogo. Nobody in his right mind flashes flashes in people's faces on the street. Only Bruce Gilden does that. And people who shoot in bursts rarely end up with anything really interesting. On the other hand, if you're doing a wedding, what people want is clichés, so it probably doesn't matter. What the bride's mother wants is "wedding pictures." That translates as pictures just like all the other "wedding pictures" she's seen. But I'll bet that if you're doing a large group you shoot a bunch of exposures. If you don't, you surely won't be able to find one where everybody's eyes are open.

Sure I take multi shots with groups  & 2 each of my candid setups .   Not sure if my Canon 60d even has a burst mode > would be nice if I received better autofocus percentages > had to go back to manual focus last year.  Even with a 2.8 lens > just not tack sharp = like a manual focus.

 One of my big selling points in the 90's > I buy back every image you don't like ~~ for $10.  Needless to say : I setup my "candid's"  :-)    IE * I walk up to a group of four people , have  them turn and face the camera with their shoulders all touching = perfect flat-planed image  ~ everyone in focus edge to edge with a bounce strobe & no surprises - food in the mouth ,etc.
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cjogo
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« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2014, 06:15:08 PM »
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1.  Yep, always listen carefully to the person writing your check.. not necessarily the bride.  I like to do a good mix of traditional and contemporary and allow them to choose.  And I like to do at least one meeting in the home of the person writing the check, good examples of what they expect will be on their best walls, piano, or mantel.  


We have destination weddings -- they are here >all of 3/4 days > back across the Country by Monday.   No post sells or pre meetings.  Very traditional shooting in my background ... and I charge for CS4 time.  If I was shooting 600-1000+ images & then have to spend days editing > they probably could not afford my charges.  Maybe many are more experienced in Light Room ( never used)  & can fly through those extraneous images = not eating into their profits.

Still edit each one individually in the RAW editor and a few actions in CS4  > BUT with most images shot on manual focus/manual exposure --- not much "real" intricate editing.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 06:35:15 PM by cjogo » Logged
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« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2014, 06:21:09 PM »
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. . .I like to do at least one meeting in the home of the person writing the check, good examples of what they expect will be on their best walls, piano, or mantel. 

Good point, Steve. And this kind of thing is exactly why I gave up commercial work back in the late sixties -- well, actually the early seventies. I couldn't stomach it any longer.
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« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2014, 08:36:54 PM »
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We have destination weddings -- they are here >all of 3/4 days > back across the Country by Monday.   No post sells or pre meetings.  Very traditional shooting in my background ... and I charge for CS4 time.  If I was shooting 600-1000+ images & then have to spend days editing > they probably could not afford my charges.  Maybe many are more experienced in Light Room ( never used)  & can fly through those extraneous images = not eating into their profits.

Still edit each one individually in the RAW editor and a few actions in CS4  > BUT with most images shot on manual focus/manual exposure --- not much "real" intricate editing.

Not that I shoot 1000 image weddings.. anymore.. ;o)  But with a decent machine and 3-4 hours of LR instruction you can learn to prepare such a shoot for selection by the client, including putting the images in an online gallery, in 2-3 hours.  That would be maybe 100 best of moment images.  Now.. if they select say 24 for prints I might spend another 1-2 hours perfecting them for print.  The better I shoot them, the less time I spend.   So under 6 hours total PP.. not bad considering what I'm paid.  I could cut down the first part in half, but that reduces the number of prints selected and prints selected in money in the bank.. it's how I charge.  I'm confident my images will lead them to spend much more than they planned.. like buying 2-3 new cars when you only intended to buy one.  I love that, tells me I'm doing my job.  With nude sessions I can increase that to 4-5 new cars..     Unfortunately since moving to this god forsaken corn field I've only found it in myself to take a few select jobs.  Neither the environment or the people in it inspire me.
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cjogo
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« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2014, 08:41:37 PM »
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I can't remember how long go it used to be when wedding clients bought prints ....even the Corporates started going to DVD files > so they can make prints at their own cost.

 If I shoot 400 images > I best be delivering at least 365.   I imagine most share on their email/net?

When the business started going to digital from film -- there was a period ( to compete) we just handed our undeveloped film to the B&G.  It was standard practice around here for a few years.  The new shooters ( with no processing /film expenses ) came in way under our proposals in the wedding business.  They were not really pros- who had worked for decades in the business >> just weekend fun with their digital cameras > cost them nothing but time.  

So to save overhead = we handed the film over, right from the camera .  Especially for a small wedding party,  in this destination spot >> just made sense.   We were all hand-meter trained -- years behind the camera --shooters -- we knew the results of the images on the rolls of film.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 09:04:51 PM by cjogo » Logged
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« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2014, 08:45:22 PM »
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Good point, Steve. And this kind of thing is exactly why I gave up commercial work back in the late sixties -- well, actually the early seventies. I couldn't stomach it any longer.
You bring up  a good point.  Not everyone is cut out to run their own business.  They never learn to accept this elevation in the food chain and feel good about it.  But for some reason they're just fine with working for someone else who pockets the fruits of their hard earned labours..
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« Reply #66 on: January 28, 2014, 08:53:54 PM »
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I can't remember how long go it used to be when wedding clients bought prints .... If I shot 400 images > I deliver at least 365.... never hear from them again.  I imagine most share on their email ....

Today if you like.  You set your own terms.  You merely make the prints seem the better deal.  Charge a flat fee for shooting the wedding to equal your time, prints to cover your post time plus a nice bonus if your work sells.  This of course is for local work.  (and I always gave them a choice of 4-5 nice papers, something they couldn't get from the competition wanting to push DVD's into their hands and directing them to CostCo.)  Know your clients better than they know themselves and never promise what you can't deliver.
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cjogo
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« Reply #67 on: January 28, 2014, 09:00:11 PM »
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Costco have really decent prints for the cost -- especially if you stay calibrated.   They do all my fine art B&W enlargements. 
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« Reply #68 on: January 28, 2014, 09:47:33 PM »
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If I shoot 400 images > I best be delivering at least 365.   I imagine most share on their email/net?

When the business started going to digital from film -- there was a period ( to compete) we just handed our undeveloped film to the B&G.  It was standard practice around here for a few years.  The new shooters ( with no processing /film expenses ) came in way under our proposals in the wedding business.  They were not really pros- who had worked for decades in the business >> just weekend fun with their digital cameras > cost them nothing but time.  

So to save overhead = we handed the film over, right from the camera .  Especially for a small wedding party,  in this destination spot >> just made sense.   We were all hand-meter trained -- years behind the camera --shooters -- we knew the results of the images on the rolls of film.

I used to do that too, they'd send rolls of serialised film and you'd send it back exposed.  It's been nearly 15 years since..  Well sir, times change.  Equipment, techniques, skills.. it all changes.   It's folly to measure yesterday against today, or your skills then against the skills of a modern shooter.  The only good reason for doing so is to make yourself feel relevant in some way and I can tell you from experience it's for nothing.  My time, your time, nothing but meaningless grains of sand hewed from the rocks lining the river of time.  It's yours, then mine, and then neither of us can glimpse the next.  It's as if it never mattered.
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cjogo
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« Reply #69 on: January 28, 2014, 09:54:56 PM »
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.  My time, your time, nothing but meaningless grains of sand hewed from the rocks lining the river of time.  It's yours, then mine, and then neither of us can glimpse the next.  It's as if it never mattered.

That's why I retired :=}
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« Reply #70 on: January 28, 2014, 10:03:42 PM »
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Costco have really decent prints for the cost -- especially if you stay calibrated.   They do all my fine art B&W enlargements. 
From a monetary standpoint I suppose it's a small line from Costco prints to nice ones you print yourself.  But from a business viewpoint it's miles distant.
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cjogo
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« Reply #71 on: January 28, 2014, 10:20:04 PM »
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From a monetary standpoint I suppose it's a small line from Costco prints to nice ones you print yourself.  But from a business viewpoint it's miles distant.

The only reason I ever ventured to COSTCO ~~ was the business viewpoint ... only for the profit/time.
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« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2014, 11:09:23 PM »
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The only reason I ever ventured to COSTCO ~~ was the business viewpoint ... only for the profit/time.

That's the small end of the profit. Buying cheap prints and selling them as maybe decent prints.  You make a lot more with some people making them think they're getting something the Jonse's next door are getting.. and in most cases they are getting a lot more.  I carried a variety of different papers, each one was QC'd, often I'd make custom sizes to fit frames they already had.. there's a lot of money to be made on this end.   But if all you want to do is get an order out and deliver generic prints then sure, Costco is usable.  So are many of the print houses.   When I started I went from charging a bargain rate to charging quite a bit more.. so I had to deliver more.
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cjogo
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« Reply #73 on: January 28, 2014, 11:27:38 PM »
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Its just the market these days --everyone is totally aware of prices.  Especially if your clients never sit down in an office & are pre-sold on nice wall images  > like we did starting in the 70's -- The B&G don't  stop by after the wedding and look through proofs...   I just get paid hourly for the time at the wedding and the small hours in CS -- burn a DVD and ship. *  I guess I could sell the people a "fancier" DVD and swanky cover.  The clients simply say :: the end result will be sharing/viewing on their laptop.  No back end sells ...

Even more cut and dry with the video I shoot ---- I cover > you hand over a small external HD and I load the raw HD footage == you edit.  

For $10K + weddings my colleagues have to fly across the country , now  > and target the big Corp/Weddings.  I ventured that way in the late 80/90's  = traveling for the bucks..
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 01:11:14 AM by cjogo » Logged
cjogo
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« Reply #74 on: January 29, 2014, 02:19:37 AM »
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Guess I should read up on "new styles" of shooting ... maybe turn on that < speed clicking for ever < thing  ....never got the Auto or Program to work well enough on the Canon ..will experiment.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 02:42:34 AM by cjogo » Logged
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« Reply #75 on: January 29, 2014, 05:13:18 AM »
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You bring up  a good point.  Not everyone is cut out to run their own business.  They never learn to accept this elevation in the food chain and feel good about it.  But for some reason they're just fine with working for someone else who pockets the fruits of their hard earned labours..

I know people like this, Steve, but that wasn't the problem. Later on I started and ran my own software engineering corporation for thirty years. The problem was disgust at the kind of work upon which these clients insisted.
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« Reply #76 on: January 29, 2014, 04:41:19 PM »
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Guess I should read up on "new styles" of shooting ... maybe turn on that < speed clicking for ever < thing  ....never got the Auto or Program to work well enough on the Canon ..will experiment.

New gear brings us new features and the possibility for new techniques.  I like to give them a try.   Heck, someone who shall remain nameless got me to try a Mac.. 

I still love the TTL on my Oly OM2n  and later the OM3ti and OM4ti.. love those cameras and that new feature everyone argued about for a decade.
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« Reply #77 on: January 29, 2014, 04:44:12 PM »
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I know people like this, Steve, but that wasn't the problem. Later on I started and ran my own software engineering corporation for thirty years. The problem was disgust at the kind of work upon which these clients insisted.

Ah, okay.  I've had some some strange requests..
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cjogo
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« Reply #78 on: January 29, 2014, 06:05:47 PM »
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New gear brings us new features and the possibility for new techniques.  I like to give them a try.   Heck, someone who shall remain nameless got me to try a Mac..  

I still love the TTL on my Oly OM2n  and later the OM3ti and OM4ti.. love those cameras and that new feature everyone argued about for a decade.

I have been manual so many years --just wouldn't know how to put full trust into Auto/TTL setup.  
.  
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 09:35:01 PM by cjogo » Logged
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« Reply #79 on: January 29, 2014, 06:21:09 PM »
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As McNally says about running the Nikon CLS on manual: "It's like having a souped up Ferrari and driving it like a little old lady on Sunday." (Or words to that effect.)
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