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Author Topic: leaked GH4 images: 4K video, XLR and SDI via bulky optional interface unit  (Read 6392 times)
BJL
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« on: February 06, 2014, 09:55:50 AM »
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This rumor seems quite trustworthy; too much effort to Photoshop all this stuff! And if true, news within twelve hours.
http://www.43rumors.com/first-panasonic-gh4-images/
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bcooter
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2014, 02:18:37 PM »
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This rumor seems quite trustworthy; too much effort to Photoshop all this stuff! And if true, news within twelve hours.
http://www.43rumors.com/first-panasonic-gh4-images/

It ain't pretty, in fact it looks like something I made in my garage,  but you can't beat the price or the usability.

422 200 mbs, 4k or 2k at 120fps, plus sdi and xlr ports with a good hdmi port (at least with the gh3 which locks tight).

This is a camera that will send the dp's that use arri crazy, but for indie guys, they'll be dancing in the street.

Then there is that crazy magic panasonic autofocus for video.

When it hits the shelf I'll buy, unless there is some kind of serious glitch.

IMO

BC

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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2014, 03:26:27 PM »
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Looks like I will have the AF100's replacement plus 4k to add to my GH3s. The add-on is honky but for a tripod camera, who really cares what it looks like? If the GH4 4K + module is confirmed tomorrow - sign me up!

BTW just back from 4th trip to Antarctica where the GH3s performed flawlessly: IQ, lightweight, sturdy, good lenses, excellent IS and good focus control. It was the first time in those 4 trips that I have been really happy with my equipment and the results. And finally, I think I have mastered the AFS/AFF conundrum... Cheesy
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2014, 05:06:26 PM »
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I fail to understand why anyone would care about XLR out of a consumer cam, the audio circuity has got to have a pretty high noise floor.  And if you're using off-camera mics, you'd go straight to the mixer/recorder instead of passing through anyway.
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bcooter
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2014, 06:21:54 PM »
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I fail to understand why anyone would care about XLR out of a consumer cam, the audio circuity has got to have a pretty high noise floor.  And if you're using off-camera mics, you'd go straight to the mixer/recorder instead of passing through anyway.

I believe that is xlr in not out.

Every sound tech I work with hates going from their mixer to the camera.  For some cameras I use the sound in the file for sync, but honestly for the REDs and probably this gh4, what comes out of the mixer is clean and I honestly can't tell the difference once it comes out of the mixer into the camera, or taking the sound techs file and working it and since most of what we do goes through sound sweetening there really is no difference, but I demand that every camera I run has sound going in.

In fact going into camera and monitoring has allowed me to catch things the sound tech missed, like an hmi packing up on the mains causing a hum.

I'm impressed with this, I can see great possiblities and it's a working man's camera that fits in a small bag.

I can't wait to see the file, but bet I buy before ever seeing the camera.

I hate getting my hopes up, but since I've had such amazing imagery from the gh3's, this is just another professional step in the right direction at bargain basement prices.

And Chris, (on the autofocus I'm not going to say I told you so but . . .) (insert smiley face thing).

BC
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 06:27:34 PM by bcooter » Logged

Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2014, 07:00:51 PM »
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... (insert smiley face thing).
Yes.  Grin
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2014, 12:05:15 AM »
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Hi,

Glad to hear that Panasonic makes extremely affordable equipment for the hard working pros.

Best regards
Erik

I believe that is xlr in not out.

Every sound tech I work with hates going from their mixer to the camera.  For some cameras I use the sound in the file for sync, but honestly for the REDs and probably this gh4, what comes out of the mixer is clean and I honestly can't tell the difference once it comes out of the mixer into the camera, or taking the sound techs file and working it and since most of what we do goes through sound sweetening there really is no difference, but I demand that every camera I run has sound going in.

In fact going into camera and monitoring has allowed me to catch things the sound tech missed, like an hmi packing up on the mains causing a hum.

I'm impressed with this, I can see great possiblities and it's a working man's camera that fits in a small bag.

I can't wait to see the file, but bet I buy before ever seeing the camera.

I hate getting my hopes up, but since I've had such amazing imagery from the gh3's, this is just another professional step in the right direction at bargain basement prices.

And Chris, (on the autofocus I'm not going to say I told you so but . . .) (insert smiley face thing).

BC
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2014, 03:48:40 AM »
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http://www.eoshd.com/content/11934/panasonic-gh4-preview

Gonna read up on this thing later but Im impressed.

Slight crop at 4k though.

Overall - XLR and SDi in a small box is very very wonderful

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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Petrus
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2014, 04:00:11 AM »
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I fail to understand why anyone would care about XLR out [sic] of a consumer cam, the audio circuity has got to have a pretty high noise floor.  And if you're using off-camera mics, you'd go straight to the mixer/recorder instead of passing through anyway.

Wrong on both counts.

I have actually tested Canon prosumer cams (XH-A1 and XF305) and it is possible to get over 90 dB of dynamic range out or them. That is about thousand times better than the great Nagra reel-to-reel recorders which were used in movie productions in the sixties to early nineties. Did they sound bad?

Recording the audio to the same card/tape with the video, even if going through a field mixer, makes a MUCH better, easier and faster workflow as there is no need to collect audio and video separately in post, when they both reside in the same file, perfectly synchronized.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 04:01:42 AM by Petrus » Logged
bcooter
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2014, 05:35:10 AM »
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Wrong on both counts.

I have actually tested Canon prosumer cams (XH-A1 and XF305) and it is possible to get over 90 dB of dynamic range out or them. That is about thousand times better than the great Nagra reel-to-reel recorders which were used in movie productions in the sixties to early nineties. Did they sound bad?

Recording the audio to the same card/tape with the video, even if going through a field mixer, makes a MUCH better, easier and faster workflow as there is no need to collect audio and video separately in post, when they both reside in the same file, perfectly synchronized.

A foley studio I know used canon xl1's without lenses for foley sound.  they worked great and in the world or pro gear were cheap.

Anyway, I'm wrapping up the editorial on 180 minutes of mostly dialog videos.    Most are shot two cam, three cam, or using 4k making 2 cam look like 3 cam and having good sound on the file is a godsend.

One of the operators in France, seemed to have a difficult time staying awake during the project (he wasn't french he was an american) so I have one camera that has spotty sound, sometimes there, sometimes not and in post it added at least 24 hours of work to sync things up.

But since were on the gh4, I've noticed on the specs they do some cropping in video to keep from binning and line skipping.  I think the ratio for 4k is academy 1:85 to 1, and for 16x9 a little more cropping.

This is kind of tough for a camera with a small sensor so I suggest finding lenses in the 1.4 to 1.8 range, but other than that, this camera should offer a lot and panasonic usually comes out of the gate with things working well.

IMO

BC
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BJL
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2014, 09:44:33 AM »
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But since were on the gh4, I've noticed on the specs they do some cropping in video to keep from binning and line skipping.  I think the ratio for 4k is academy 1:85 to 1, and for 16x9 a little more cropping.
The "4K2K" output is 4096 x 2160, so to be excessively precise, 1.896:1.  So yeah, it is academy 1.85:1.  More importantly, that 4096 x 2160 is what is used in the Sony 4K projection systems, both for cinemas and home theater.

I have a question though: with the photo-site count being 4608 x 3456 (4:3 shape), is this done by cropping both horizontally and vertically in order to use "one pixel = one photo-site", or is the camera only cropping vertically for shape to 4608x2430 ad then interpolating to the slightly lower output pixel count? After all, there is lots of interpolation going on already with Bayer CFA demosaicing and conversion to the various video color formats like 4:2:2 and 4:2:0.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2014, 10:07:49 AM »
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the 4k is a crop on the sensor so 1:1 pixels but a smaller image area captured.
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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bcooter
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2014, 03:37:16 PM »
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the 4k is a crop on the sensor so 1:1 pixels but a smaller image area captured.

Losing .3 is not the best alternative, though the same as blackmagic's 4k camera so I guess it's not going against a standard, though the problem is there is no real standard in 4k.

Fortunately there are a lot of good autofocus fast primes from panasonic (leica) and olympus so other than long reach 300mm to 400mm and a super fast autofocus ultrawide (9mm) most of the range is covered well and the lenses are small enough to carry easily.

Then there are all kinds of manual options like the list of .95 manual primes, so having depth of field options are good.

If all goes to plan, panasonic did a good job.  it's far from pretty, but it looks very functional and with panasonic's autofocus they have done something that the larger players haven't and it's not just attractive in regards to price. 

I do know if the rumors are true i'd by the north american version as it doesn't have the 20 something minute eu limitation on run time.

Anyway,

Firing up a larger camera and shooting is a lot more difficult than a camera with the panasonic form factor.   

One pelican case, 10 lenses two bodies and you could open the case, mount a lens and start shooting.

To me the only thing they are missing is olympus m43 in camera stabilization.

With that the world would be a much smoother place.

I just hope it works as well as the gh3.

IMO

BC
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BJL
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« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2014, 11:08:33 AM »
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US price $1,698 for the body alone and $3,298.00 with the interface unit:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Panasonic/Ntt/Panasonic+GH4/N/0?cm_mmc=EML-_-NewAnnouncement-PanasonicGH4-_-140310-_-Body_Retail_PanasonicGH4

Quote
Panasonic UK has announced pricing and availability for its flagship 4K video-recording mirrorless camera, the Lumix DMC-GH4. It'll go on sale on 5th May for 1299.99 body only, 1749.99 with 14-140mm zoom, or 2499.99 with the specialist DMW-YAGHE video interface unit. --- http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/03/10/panasonic-uk-announces-price-and-availability-for-lumix-dmc-gh4?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=news-list&utm_medium=text&ref=title_0_0

Clearly not priced for stills-only photographers, but how do the video folks react to this pricing?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 11:12:29 AM by BJL » Logged
Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2014, 11:52:47 AM »
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I think the camera is very fairly priced.

However, the price of the add-on box is a very expensive way to add XLR inputs and SDI/TimeCode out.

BTW the unit while bulky & fugly, is quite light and actually handles reasonably well.

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Christopher Sanderson
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billy
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« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2014, 04:30:09 PM »
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if one does not want the add on unit, would the GH4 be 'better' spec wise than buying the GH3? better Autofocus? better dynamic range? sharper 1080p ( I have no interest in recording 4k ) ?

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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2014, 08:31:09 PM »
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if one does not want the add on unit, would the GH4 be 'better' spec wise than buying the GH3? better Autofocus? better dynamic range? sharper 1080p ( I have no interest in recording 4k ) ?
Yes, much better spec-wise: faster more accurate AF (more points), better DR, sharpness? - I am not sure what you mean but certainly higher resolution video, (you will want 4k to downsample to 1080). Much better viewfinder & screen, much better menu controls and more versatile codec/fps choices for global production. All in all a very solid upgrade. Same ergonomics as GH3.
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2014, 05:43:32 PM »
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Thanks for your info Chris. Yes, when I said "sharper" I meant resolution. So it sounds like you need to record in 4k and downsample to 1080 to get maximum resolution as opposed to simply recording in 1080.

One more question regarding Autofocus; do some lenses work better than others with the AF? I have the Panasonic/Leica 25mm prime, has anyone used this for AF with the GH3?
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