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Author Topic: In the swamp again  (Read 6075 times)
Tim_Smith
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« on: February 20, 2014, 09:27:44 AM »
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I have a serious love/hate relationship with C1 Pro. Love the way it renders my files and hate the way it organizes them. I'll admit I haven't spent as much time as I should learning the esoteric details of the file management approach C1 uses. However, I'm not shooting for a living or trying to organize a million photos.

About a couple months ago, I opened C1 Pro and noticed something weird. All of my photos that had been processed via C1 seemed to be showing up under the Library menu. I was ecstatic! Holy cow, I didn't have to search around through the morass of sessions and catalogs, they just appeared under the library. Click on a session and boom! the files showed up! It was almost as good as sex.

But today, with absolutely no changes in storage devices, connections, computers or other processing gear, and after updating to the most recent version of C1, they're all gone. Just like that, any session or catalog I try to open shows question marks for the images. An integrity check says all is well and yet... the images don't show up.

Why can't I just be in love? Do I need an IQ test to qualify for this software? Should I simply ignore my feelings and settle for Lightroom?

Any advice welcome.

Under a cloud of doom,
Tim
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James R
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 10:04:11 AM »
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Probably the IQ test thing...

This is pretty common when coming over from Adobe.  Have you gone on the Capture One site and watched the tutorials?  The most important thing, in my book, is starting off with a properly thought workflow.  Whether using Catalogues or Sessions or both combined, you need to understand the basic before jumping into the program.   I've heard that Michael's new Capture One training video on this site is very good.  That video obviously did a better job of training my friend than I could.  He now criticizes my methodology and shows off his workspaces. 

Good luck

 
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allegretto
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 02:14:47 PM »
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Second that. Buy and watch the tutorial

I am quite sure your images are somewhere. If you hunt around you will find them

On a tangent, anyone who commits to C1 should also use Media Pro. Aside from making C1 cataloging easy, it will make ALL your images, videos, audios etc. findable from one place. It does not import them, it just tells you where they are. So it crosses all folders and files when set up properly

So, $60 for the tutorial and $200 for Media Pro and assuming you use the tutorials for both, it is as slick as snot on a doorknob...
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Tim_Smith
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 04:08:27 PM »
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Thanks for the encouragement. I'd forgotten about Media Pro. That might be the thing I need. And the videos of course. Always happy to support LL.

Thanks!
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Tim_Smith
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2014, 07:32:44 AM »
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Just a follow up in case anyone else finds themselves in a similar situation. I discovered the previous version of C1 installer on my HD and ran the install over the newest version, essentially going back one software iteration. Bingo, all was right with the world again. I think I'll stick with this one until a compelling reason to upgrade comes along.

I have begun the trial of Media Pro and so have some video tutorial time ahead. Great time of year for it.

Thanks again.
Tim
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James R
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2014, 10:27:41 AM »
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That is interesting. Do you mean version 6?  If version 7.0:  I have found that every new iteration C! 7.xx corrected a major or minor problem.  You might try updating with the latest version again to see if the problems are gone.  You can always reload the older version again.  Maybe your problem was just a corrupted file all along.  Worth a try.  Too many positive changes are contained in updates to disregard.

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allegretto
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2014, 12:07:34 PM »
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I personally think that the "catalogs" of 7.X are an issue. that's why you do better with 6.X

A lot of the problems (freezing and crashing) of 7.X are when I kept using catalogs. When I switched to sessions, it behaved far more nicely.

Actually, I like the organization of sessions better. Makes it easier to pick your winner shots and segregate them
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Tim_Smith
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2014, 05:58:14 PM »
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To be honest, i don't know how far back I went. The re-installed (and working) version is 7.1.2. I'll give this most recent update a skip and try again on the next one.

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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2014, 04:45:28 AM »
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Second that. Buy and watch the tutorial

I am quite sure your images are somewhere. If you hunt around you will find them

On a tangent, anyone who commits to C1 should also use Media Pro. Aside from making C1 cataloging easy, it will make ALL your images, videos, audios etc. findable from one place. It does not import them, it just tells you where they are. So it crosses all folders and files when set up properly

So, $60 for the tutorial and $200 for Media Pro and assuming you use the tutorials for both, it is as slick as snot on a doorknob...

I actually strongly disagree with that comment!

You should not feel the need to use Media Pro if you are a Capture One user.  You might benefit from Media Pro if you want to catalog a wider range of file types than purely images - as you state above.

Personally, as someone who only wants to organise my images, Media Pro would be completely unnecessary.

David
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David Grover
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2014, 04:46:30 AM »
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I personally think that the "catalogs" of 7.X are an issue. that's why you do better with 6.X

A lot of the problems (freezing and crashing) of 7.X are when I kept using catalogs. When I switched to sessions, it behaved far more nicely.

Actually, I like the organization of sessions better. Makes it easier to pick your winner shots and segregate them

There is no reason why in a Catalog you could not segregate images in a catalog easily with the use of Smart Albums, as one example.  Or simply drag and drop to a selects Album.
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David Grover
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dandaman56
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2014, 11:26:48 AM »
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There is no reason why in a Catalog you could not segregate images in a catalog easily with the use of Smart Albums, as one example.  Or simply drag and drop to a selects Album.

   Unless Smart Albums won't work correctly and tech support can't get them to work correctly, as in my case.  But I do not wish to hijack a post.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2014, 12:50:20 PM »
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There is no reason why in a Catalog you could not segregate images in a catalog easily with the use of Smart Albums, as one example.  Or simply drag and drop to a selects Album.

Doesn't it make more sense for some, if not most...To have an application dedicated to the organizing and sifting through files and other app for developing along side one another (specially in Dual screen use) to work independently instead of having to switch from one interface to the other... doing so blocking one over the other?  i ask this with really no experience in using the catalog in C1, as I initially tried and reverted quickly back to Sessions.

To also help with the initial post. Ys the videos made by Michael are from my experience very thorough, and well paced. They will no doubt help a great deal. BUT because C1 behaves differently than even a OS standard way of File access and management,  IF you don't use it daily, it is easy to forget. Since the rest of the time you use your computer and access files and do things how either Mac or Windows does and you are familiar with it. When switching to C1 you have to change gears and methodology. At least this is my experience. But over the year I have been "forced" to get used to it. And I have for the most part.

I don't know your imaging needs to recommend you of another RAW processor.
For some of the work I do, C1 develops cleaner files than LR( in my experience and the speed at which I achieve this). Particularly product images photographed with PhaseOne backs.
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allegretto
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2014, 06:53:38 PM »
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I actually strongly disagree with that comment!

You should not feel the need to use Media Pro if you are a Capture One user.  You might benefit from Media Pro if you want to catalog a wider range of file types than purely images - as you state above.

Personally, as someone who only wants to organise my images, Media Pro would be completely unnecessary.

David

I'm not half as knowledgable as you David, but I find your comments curious. If I use Catalogs or Sessions there is no central overarching filing system. You must open each catalog separately or use one large catalog. I find Media Pro is just very neat and allows me to lay all my resources in front or me for browsing.

So I will amend and say "for me" it seems intuitive and makes my work easier.
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Tim_Smith
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2014, 07:41:19 AM »
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...

To also help with the initial post. Ys the videos made by Michael are from my experience very thorough, and well paced. They will no doubt help a great deal. BUT because C1 behaves differently than even a OS standard way of File access and management,  IF you don't use it daily, it is easy to forget. Since the rest of the time you use your computer and access files and do things how either Mac or Windows does and you are familiar with it. When switching to C1 you have to change gears and methodology. At least this is my experience. But over the year I have been "forced" to get used to it. And I have for the most part.
...

I suspect you are correct and that my intermittent use of the program allows for memory fails. Which is a unique phenomenon with C1. I have been a professional designer for over 20 years and make a living using software that has evolved over that time. And while I love the way C1 renders RAW files, I have to say that my most frequent criticism of the software surrounds this very issue. Essentially, it forces you to think and work the way it wants you too. Which turns out to be just non-intuitive enough to cause the kind of detour from simple that I've just encountered. For the record, I admit pilot error. I haven't studied enough. Still, having successfully mastered many other professional level software programs, it makes me wonder if Phase isn't being blind about their file management approach and therefore missing out on a much broader market for C1. The awkwardness inherent in their approach is the single largest reason I don't recommend it more often to those in search of photo processing software.

In spite of that, I'm not likely to quit it. I've come to think of it as the semi-painful price to be paid for the look I like best in my files. Approximately as frustrating as (for example) winding 120 film onto steel reels in total darkness.

Best,
Tim
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2014, 02:32:48 PM »
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I have been a professional designer for over 20 years and make a living using software that has evolved over that time. And while I love the way C1 renders RAW files, I have to say that my most frequent criticism of the software surrounds this very issue. Essentially, it forces you to think and work the way it wants you too. Which turns out to be just non-intuitive enough to cause the kind of detour from simple that I've just encountered. For the record, I admit pilot error. I haven't studied enough. Still, having successfully mastered many other professional level software programs, it makes me wonder if Phase isn't being blind about their file management approach and therefore missing out on a much broader market for C1. The awkwardness inherent in their approach is the single largest reason I don't recommend it more often to those in search of photo processing software.

I'm with you, and many if not most users as you can see from most threads with criticism.
You will have the certified techs and such related floks that rely on C1... as Digital Techs protect their interest$. I too went through it, but I don't work as a DigiTech. I just want to be fluent with the sw, BUT, like I said, if you don't use it, you lose it.... It ISN'T like riding a bike!

Odd thing is that C1 makes a business out of making users take lessons in using the software. Until they let this extended reach and relation in business go away and have more interest in expanding the user reach by simplifying, they gain from this "locked in" way of working. Then once you do take the lessons, then you can graduate to be a "certified C1 pro". This also helps lock in their rental interests as the renter can provide a digital tech capable of using C1, etc. I think they fear that if they make C1 easier to use and more access able, they will lose the exclusivity? I don't spend time thinking why, but I do know that until they shift their interest away from this, they have no reason to make it easier to use.  This is not a new application. Its been around for over a decade. They had it right in the beginning up to version 3.78~(etc..?>), After that, they revamped it and made a mess out of the way it works. With the mess they certainly have made great improvements with the RAW developer itself.  With the addition of the catalogues, was even worse.

 I would be happy to pay full for C1 if they made a version that behaived like the 3.78 version with the DEVELOPING abilities that v7 has...I know some readers responses..."You can have it both ways..etc".  Yes you can. Write software based on some form of standards users are familiar with.

I use it sporadically and less so now, so I too have to make this shift each time I use it, and its always a time waster with confusion and a relief to finally start shooting.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2014, 04:09:28 PM »
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Odd thing is that C1 makes a business out of making users take lessons in using the software. Until they let this extended reach and relation in business go away and have more interest in expanding the user reach by simplifying, they gain from this "locked in" way of working. Then once you do take the lessons, then you can graduate to be a "certified C1 pro". This also helps lock in their rental interests as the renter can provide a digital tech capable of using C1, etc. I think they fear that if they make C1 easier to use and more access able, they will lose the exclusivity?

All training for C1 everywhere in the world combined accounts for maybe 1-2% of the revenue for Capture One. And most of that actually goes to the dealer channel, not to Phase One.

That is to say 98-99% of C1 revenue comes from sales of the software, not from training.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2014, 08:27:49 PM »
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Hi Doug,

I'm glad you chimed in, as I remember you talking about this on another post. I forget if you had an answer, or some reasons why they do this, but...

It does make sense that the dealers gain. I just don't see why C1 doesn't work on making the SW more user friendly and piratical to some OS standards.
You always see the majority of posts that complain, and its mostly these issues.

I wonder if the dealers have Digitech carts with LR? Maybe a trade off for exclusivity?

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