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Author Topic: Would like some quick and direct answers on H Series Shutter Speed, etc  (Read 1435 times)
Chris Raymond
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« on: February 22, 2014, 02:10:01 AM »
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Hi all

Brand new and just want some quick opinions on H series vs Mamiya / Phase - NO not the whole 'which is better', just quick usability and practicality.....
I have done a fair bit of research already Wink, but some answers are just not easy to find, I like and WANT a H2D-22 (updated firmware) as a starter kit, but have some reservations... Huh

For outdoor shooting, natural light for Landscape (hike in), Automotive, Architectural and 'creative shots', know I will need a tripod for many situations.

1. How limiting do you find the 1/800 shutter speed of the H system - I'm thinking wide open (f2.8 ) in bright Australian sunlight with light coloured subjects (Automotive)

2. Battery Life, the newer H series (H2D, etc) has a combined battery power from the grip to MFDB - this is good for simplicity and handholding, but how many shots do you get?

3. Leaf Aptus backs use a battery mounted below the unit, again what issues does this cause, what is the battery life?

4. H Series (H2D and up) can do DAC, what is the oldest Mamiya body (AFDii ??) & MFDB combination that can achieve the same thing (with D series lenses) eg. a P25, Aptus 22 - or do I need to go newer to get that facility - I assume it is recording of lens and exposure data to EXIF for use in software.

I see this is a fairly active forum and I thank you in advance for spending your time to answer my questions. Grin

« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 02:58:11 AM by Chris Raymond » Logged
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2014, 06:38:25 AM »
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4) lens corrections be applied to any phase/leaf raw. Fully automatic on new lenses and bodies, semi-automatic (it sees the focal length and lists 1-4 lenses to select from of that focal length, fully manual for lenses that aren't supported. So if you get a phase p25, afd2 and a 45mm non d lens then it would not automatically apply the distortion correction and CA removal for that lens, but you'd be one click away since it would list that lens in the lens correction window for you to pick. Optionally you can filter the view of a session/folder/search by a focal length and then batch apply the corrections to all.
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jerome_m
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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2014, 10:12:30 AM »
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1. How limiting do you find the 1/800 shutter speed of the H system - I'm thinking wide open (f2.8 ) in bright Australian sunlight with light coloured subjects (Automotive)

There are only 2 lenses in the H system which are as fast as f/2.8, others are f/3.5 or f/4. In the sun, 50 iso and f/4 may need a higher speed than 1/800 (you can check with your present camera, 1/800 is 1/800 with any camera...). But that is rarely a problem in practice, as one rarely shoots at these apertures with a MF and if you want to use f/2.8, a ND filter (or a polarizing filter...) will solve the problem.

Note that the Sunny 16 rule means that exposure for iso 50 in the sun should be 1/50 at f/16, which is the same as 1/800 at f/4.0

Quote
2. Battery Life, the newer H series (H2D, etc) has a combined battery power from the grip to MFDB - this is good for simplicity and handholding, but how many shots do you get?

Hasselblad says less than 200 shots for the backs powered by the body battery. The new batteries have double that capacity.

Quote
3. Leaf Aptus backs use a battery mounted below the unit, again what issues does this cause, what is the battery life?

Then your back batteries will be exhausted long before your body batteries. The body does not use much energy.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 10:48:48 AM by jerome_m » Logged
Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2014, 11:32:18 AM »
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Hi all

Brand new and just want some quick opinions on H series vs Mamiya / Phase - NO not the whole 'which is better', just quick usability and practicality.....
I have done a fair bit of research already Wink, but some answers are just not easy to find, I like and WANT a H2D-22 (updated firmware) as a starter kit, but have some reservations... Huh

For outdoor shooting, natural light for Landscape (hike in), Automotive, Architectural and 'creative shots', know I will need a tripod for many situations.

1. How limiting do you find the 1/800 shutter speed of the H system - I'm thinking wide open (f2.8 ) in bright Australian sunlight with light coloured subjects (Automotive)

2. Battery Life, the newer H series (H2D, etc) has a combined battery power from the grip to MFDB - this is good for simplicity and handholding, but how many shots do you get?

3. Leaf Aptus backs use a battery mounted below the unit, again what issues does this cause, what is the battery life?

4. H Series (H2D and up) can do DAC, what is the oldest Mamiya body (AFDii ??) & MFDB combination that can achieve the same thing (with D series lenses) eg. a P25, Aptus 22 - or do I need to go newer to get that facility - I assume it is recording of lens and exposure data to EXIF for use in software.

I see this is a fairly active forum and I thank you in advance for spending your time to answer my questions. Grin




Chris -

Keep in mind H2D will not allow use of HCD lenses (28mm and 35-90 zoom). At least it didn't use to (don't know if any firmware since has changed that). Also, H2D produces DNG raw file. While some saw this as a positive step, it was abandoned with the H3D as Hasselblad found the overhead involved in writing DNG formats became a drain on speed of in camera operation. This may not be noticeable to an end user, but something to be aware of. As far as I know file support for the H2D DNG files remains, but maybe a thought toward looking at an H3D vintage instead (allowed HCD lenses, shot Hasselblad 3FR, compatible with film back) if there's not that much of a price difference.

As Jerome mentioned, the Leaf Aptus battery will lose charging power much sooner than most camera body batteries it is used on (standard Leaf battery is max about 2 hours). However, due to the non-enclosed nature of the battery compartment for the Aptus, larger batteries (meaning hang down longer, same base footprint) can be used with higher capacity options, 4800 - 6000 mAh or more (the standard Leaf battery is 2350 mAh). These longer batteries become a sort of handle then!  Wink


So much for direct answers Chris!


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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jerome_m
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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2014, 12:44:52 PM »
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Keep in mind H2D will not allow use of HCD lenses (28mm and 35-90 zoom).

It should work with an Hasselblad digital back. It should not work with a film back or a third party back.
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JV
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2014, 12:56:03 PM »
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Keep in mind H2D will not allow use of HCD lenses (28mm and 35-90 zoom).

It should work with an Hasselblad digital back. It should not work with a film back or a third party back.

It is also my understanding that HCD lenses should work fine on the H2D.

Also adding the 24mm to the list of HCD lenses: 24mm, 28mm and 35-90mm.
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Chris Raymond
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2014, 06:11:28 PM »
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Thanks for the comments guys,

I am still some way off buying into MFD, currently use DX Nikon and a Bronica GS-1 (although not as often as I should).

My main reason for MFD is 'the look', not necessarily the mega resolution, so I will be aiming at the larger sensors (48x36) in 22 or 33MP.


- Doug, thanks that clears it up, for my purposes it is dependant on lens (assuming AFDii and P25/Aptus 22 - the oldest combo I would reasonably consider)

- Jerome, I did try it with my D7000 set to ISO 100, f4, 1/800 and found that white items in the sun were blown (even concrete surfaces), I would assume that H2D-22 would have a bit more highlight DR so did not know how well it would compare.  I know that f4 on MF is still shallow, just not sure about being limited in my selection of aperture by a such an expensive camera system.

- Steve, using the larger sensors the HCD28 may be compromised in the corners? anyway the HC35 was my intended wide lens.  Battery life given would mean that I could rely on the one camera battery and just bring a spare for the back as it would run out earlier.

So much to consider, I know I will need to hire or at least try out these cameras to make a final decision - and I can see how there is so much 'internet agro' between uses of each system.
Love the versatility of the Mamiya/Phase/Aptus system with regard to upgrades, but the Hasselblad is attractive for its design layout and integration.

Thanks again guys, you have given me some good answers.
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2014, 06:41:34 PM »
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It is also my understanding that HCD lenses should work fine on the H2D.

Also adding the 24mm to the list of HCD lenses: 24mm, 28mm and 35-90mm.


I'm going to stand by my previous position on HCD lenses with the H2D system - and thanks for adding the 24mm, forgot about that one.

Check the compatible lenses page on my attached H2D PDF. I keep old product documents for a good reason!  Wink

I also attached a spreadsheet I put together back in the day that detailed the differences between HXD bodies up through H3D-II. I noticed I have an X for "self powering/view camera compatible". I don't remember this - probably didn't have anyone ever buy one for use in that way, but this may mean that even with a firewire connection to a computer, the H2D may not sustain any self-powering unless it is attached to the H2D camera body itself. Not positive of this, but if so, it may also be an important consideration, and again some reason to maybe try to stretch to H3D instead.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Chris Raymond
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2014, 07:36:39 PM »
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Steve,

found this, regarding firmware update for H2D to use HTS 1.5 and HCD35-90mm.

http://www.hasselblad.fr/sav/assistance-technique/firmware-downloads.aspx

readme PDF attached, right down the bottom it has this:


H2D, H3D and H3DII (from 2.1.0):
- Increased the number of profiles from 4 to 8.
- Changed name of the first profile to “Default”. This is always the first choice when entering the profiles menu. The last used profile is indicated with a frame around the name.
- Added 2 and 3 EV as possible Bracketing step.
- New short cut to the Custom Options level in the menu: Press two times on the MENU button.
- Added a custom option to control if a pre-released-mirror always shall return after an exposure or not.
- Added a custom option where AE-lock can be assigned to half press on the shutter release.
- Added a custom option to hide B- and T-mode from the list of shutter speeds.
- Changed the order of user button functions
- If the digital capture unit reports a Busy-state to the camera, the exposure will be made as soon as the digital capture unit is ready again and the shutter release is kept depressed.
Changes in version 081222.hbf:
A. Improvements
1. Support for HTS1.5
2. Support for DC Power Grip
3. Support for HCD 35-90 zoom lens
4. AV and TV stored when the camera is turned off and restored at power up (even after battery reset).
B. Functional changes
1. Scale in viewfinder removed when light metering is stopped (due to stop down, mirror up or HTS1.5 not centered).[/size][/size]


From this I take it that an upgraded H2D can take HCD lenses and HTS 1.5, however the HCD24 and HCD28 may not have enough image circle for the larger sensors typical in these cameras 22, 39.

A later upgrade adds support for the 2900mAh battery Jerome mentioned. Grin

« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 07:41:21 PM by Chris Raymond » Logged
JV
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2014, 07:49:39 PM »
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I'm going to stand by my previous position on HCD lenses with the H2D system - and thanks for adding the 24mm, forgot about that one.

Check the compatible lenses page on my attached H2D PDF. I keep old product documents for a good reason!  Wink

I also attached a spreadsheet I put together back in the day that detailed the differences between HXD bodies up through H3D-II. I noticed I have an X for "self powering/view camera compatible". I don't remember this - probably didn't have anyone ever buy one for use in that way, but this may mean that even with a firewire connection to a computer, the H2D may not sustain any self-powering unless it is attached to the H2D camera body itself. Not positive of this, but if so, it may also be an important consideration, and again some reason to maybe try to stretch to H3D instead.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

Steve,

This is from an old thread on this Forum:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=36003.0;wap2

David Grover / Phase One:
Quote from: erick.boileau

Is there a real  quality difference  between  Hasselblad H2D 22 and H3D 22 ?  and what are the  main differences ?
Is it possible to use HCD lenses or at least HTS 1.5 ?

thank you

Quality difference would be very small, if at all noticeable.

The H3D MkII has a larger screen, more efficient cooling and a better IR filter.

The H2D's digital magazine cannot be used on a technical camera where the H3DMkI and MkII can.

HCD lenses and HTS will work fine on the H2D.

David


I believe David at that time still had a different company in his signature Smiley

Thanks, Joris.
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2014, 09:20:56 PM »
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Steve,

This is from an old thread on this Forum:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=36003.0;wap2

David Grover / Phase One:
Quote from: erick.boileau

Is there a real  quality difference  between  Hasselblad H2D 22 and H3D 22 ?  and what are the  main differences ?
Is it possible to use HCD lenses or at least HTS 1.5 ?

thank you

Quality difference would be very small, if at all noticeable.

The H3D MkII has a larger screen, more efficient cooling and a better IR filter.

The H2D's digital magazine cannot be used on a technical camera where the H3DMkI and MkII can.

HCD lenses and HTS will work fine on the H2D.

David


I believe David at that time still had a different company in his signature Smiley

Thanks, Joris.


Good to know! So I guess technically I was correct - the H2D initially did not support HCD lenses - but it looks like I missed the firmware update. I'll add it to the knowledge base.

Yes, that David....he does get around. He used to complain to me about someone who had a knack for portraying Hasselblad in a less than flattering light - guess he doesn't mind now!  Grin


Steve Hendrix
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Chris Raymond
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2014, 01:24:24 AM »
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According to the HC Lens Book V2, both the HCD 28mm and HCD 24mm are designed for an image sensor of 49x37mm and can be used with the HTS1.5 on these sensors.

The HCD 4/28 mm lens is designed solely for digital use. This means that the lens is
designed for a format of 37x49 mm and does not cover the film format (41.5x56mm).
The function is therefor disabled when using a film magazine.


To use the HCD24 on the 40x53mm sensors you need to use 112mm filters....

95mm Filter Thread Diameter & 105 / 112mm Filter Adapters Included The lens uses threaded filters and includes lens caps, as well as a bayonet mount lens hood that can be reverse mounted for transport. The 95mm filter thread works with 40MP (32.9 x 43.Cool formats and the 105mm filter adapter is used on 50MP (49.1 x 36.7). For 60MP (53.7 x 40.2) and HTS 1.5x formats use the 112mm filter adapter
.

http://www.hasselblad.com.au/hb/index.cfm?pageID=12&prdGroup=1&subPrdGroup=8&modelID=190&CFID=972219&CFTOKEN=25866431

Sweet lookin' bits of glass.......
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jerome_m
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2014, 01:40:43 AM »
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- Jerome, I did try it with my D7000 set to ISO 100, f4, 1/800 and found that white items in the sun were blown (even concrete surfaces), I would assume that H2D-22 would have a bit more highlight DR so did not know how well it would compare.

The backs you are considering go down to iso 50, not iso 100. Still, if 1/800 is too slow, I insist that the easiest solution is to use a polarising filter which is good practice if you have reflections in any cases and takes about 3 stops of exposure.

Quote
I know that f4 on MF is still shallow, just not sure about being limited in my selection of aperture by a such an expensive camera system.

Part of the look of these format comes from the use of slower apertures like f/4 or f/5.6.

Quote
Steve, using the larger sensors the HCD28 may be compromised in the corners?

No. Their corners would be compromised on film, which is a bit bigger than the sensors you are considering.
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sbernthal
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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2014, 08:51:50 AM »
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Aptus 22 goes to ISO 25, so I think it will solve your bright sun problems.
Aptus batteries don't run out that quickly, and don't cause any issues.
Aptus might have a problem in direct sunlight in a hot day for a few hours.
I believe out of the three options you've described, Aptus has the best sensor, and stands best the test of time.
It's also possible to use AFD (I), might require firmware upgrade.
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Jim Kasson
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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2014, 10:03:11 AM »
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Also, H2D produces DNG raw file. While some saw this as a positive step, it was abandoned with the H3D as Hasselblad found the overhead involved in writing DNG formats became a drain on speed of in camera operation. This may not be noticeable to an end user, but something to be aware of.

My H2D-39 did indeed write DNG files when I first got it, I think in 2007. After a year or two there was a firmware update that removed that capability and meant that I had to use the Hasselblad image editor of the day to convert to TIFF so that I could get the files into Lightroom. I just updated the firmware using Phocus, and, unless there is a hidden switch I can't find, it still won't write DNG files, and I still can't just pull the card out of the camera, copy the files to the hard disk, fire up Lr, and import them.

I don't know how to do a firmware downgrade, and I don't think I would if I could. If there's a way to make the H2D write DNG files with the current firmware, I'd love to hear about it.

Jim
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jerome_m
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« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2014, 10:29:51 AM »
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If there's a way to make the H2D write DNG files with the current firmware, I'd love to hear about it.

Doesn't lightroom read the Hasselblad raw files? (I don't know myself, since I don't use Lightroom. Furthermore, I am using a mac and OS X reads Hasselblad files natively, so plenty of software reads this files on a mac but not necessarily on a PC).

If lightroom does not read Hasselblad files on your machine, I would suggest to try to install the lightroom tethering plugin available for free on the Hasselblad site. It should work after that (and include lens corrections, colour profiles, etc...).
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Jim Kasson
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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2014, 11:39:42 AM »
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Doesn't lightroom read the Hasselblad raw files?


I just tried it (on a PC) and it works!  Thank you so much.

...I would suggest to try to install the lightroom tethering plugin available for free on the Hasselblad site. It should work after that (and include lens corrections, colour profiles, etc...).

Thanks again. I'll look into it. I'll need to buy Lr for my Mac, which is the only computer I have with Firewire, right?

Jim
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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2014, 12:42:00 PM »
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Thanks again. I'll look into it. I'll need to buy Lr for my Mac, which is the only computer I have with Firewire, right?

You may be able to install a firewire card on your PC. Some laptops from Sony actually had firewire built-in in the form of a mini plug labelled i-link.

As to your Mac, OS X can read Hasselblad raw files natively. Preview and Aperture, for example, will work. The quality is quite not as good as with Phocus (or Lightroom).
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sbernthal
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« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2014, 12:57:33 PM »
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You can install PCI powered FireWire card on any desktop PC.
There are no more Windows laptops with powered FireWire ports (they had them ten years ago), but you can install a FireWire Express card on pretty much any Windows laptop. These cards need separate power supplies, which make them inconvenient. I use a Macbook with Windows installed on it, so that I can have the powered FireWire port which feeds from the laptop's main power.
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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2014, 01:08:39 PM »
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4. H Series (H2D and up) can do DAC, what is the oldest Mamiya body (AFDii ??) & MFDB combination that can achieve the same thing (with D series lenses) eg. a P25, Aptus 22 - or do I need to go newer to get that facility - I assume it is recording of lens and exposure data to EXIF for use in software.

Hi Chris
Phase's implementation of Lens corrections is not quite as good as Hasselblad's. The H cameras pass back aperture and focus distance data that is used to make corrections, the really are very good, especially should you ever use an HTS.

Get Damon at CR Kennedy to demonstrate them for you.

Nick-T
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