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Author Topic: NEC spectraview 272 vs Sony Trimaster EL OLED series  (Read 4009 times)
Roberto Chaves
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« on: February 27, 2014, 05:38:34 AM »
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Hi!

I've been following, testing, evaluating the Eizo CG monitors and the NEC Spectraview monitors (+ some odd other display makers trying to get into the photographic niche) for about 10 years now.
Since I first read about OLED displays, many years ago, I have been waiting for them to become available and at good prices, recalling how they first had problems with the blue leds not lasting more than a couple of thousands hours etc.
I recall IBM making their first 400 and 200 DPI screens requiring special graphics cards to manage getting even a slow refresh rate.

Still waiting for the "perfect" monitor with high resolution, perfect blacks, excellent uniformity, great color accuracy and 10 bit depth.
My old Eizo CG screen needs to be retired and it seems to me that the NEC Spectraview 272 is the current state of the art for a reasonable price, having now bypassed Eizo in quality.
I had a quick look at it as a shop and I like the new screen coating (no grainy surface as the latest Eizo has), it has a good resolution (impossible to go back to 1920x1200 having worked in 2560x1400 on my former iMac). Calibration easily gets deltaE < 2. It seems to support 10 bit (just waiting for Mac OS X with some hardware to support this).

Now, I just thought before buying one to look around and see what the current state is for OLED displays, recalling Sony having made a few larger prototypes some time ago and found out about the Trimaster EL OLED series.
These are obviously meant for the broadcast/movie production industry (both resolution wise and price wise). I will not be buying any (way beyond my budget and too low resolution)
However, I'm  curios, has anyone here seen them in real life?

Some links:
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/product-BVMF250A/
http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/ext/monitors/oled/flash/index.html
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/micro-oled/?broadcast

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Best regards,
 Roberto Chaves
 www.tabi.se
Czornyj
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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2014, 01:23:46 PM »
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I had calibrated an OLED Sony in a broadcast station, nothing to write home about. You don't really need that kind of super-hyper-high contrast to soft proof prints. It could potentially reproduce dark, saturated colours of prints better, but the one I saw was limited to a sRGB-like gamut, so couldn't check how it's gonna work in a real world.

FWIW, I'd take PA272W - it's reasonably priced and as good as it gets - and wait patiently a few years for reasonably priced OLED displays designed for colour critical applications.
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Roberto Chaves
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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2014, 10:25:08 AM »
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I understand the first generation of them had an off-axis color problem which is supposed to be better now.
I agree that super high contrast is not necessary for soft prints (the screen normally already has more contrast), however what I like is having a pure black, not some glow when having a almost complete black screen in a dark room, it should not be visible Smiley

It was most about being curios to hear if these monitors where representing the state of the art or what weaknesses they have.

And in theory it should be possible to calibrate the uniformity of a OLED display on a per pixel basis instead of large light spots, giving a perfect uniformity.

I agree that the NEC 272W is probably the best option today. I did a quick test that annoyed me slightly, however the monitor might not have been calibrated properly. If I, in Photoshop, filled the complete screen with black, then selected a rectangle in the middle of the screen, hid the selection frame and adjusted in levels so that I could increase the color of the area on step at a time I would notice that at around R=G=B= somewhere around 14 or 20 or so (don't recall exactly) the grey color would not stay neutral but shift to a slightly warmer grey.

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 Roberto Chaves
 www.tabi.se
WombatHorror
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2014, 02:52:25 AM »
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Yeah one day we will have 16bit per channel HDR, OLED, 8k 28" 16:10 monitors with 24bit internal 3D LUTS and we will finally be set!  Grin

I've been waiting for "just next year" OLED for over a decade so far.

UHD is finally here though! Never imagined it would hit before OLED!

Just got the Dell UP2414Q! So awesome!

It has the wide gamut and the UHD, it lacks the 16:10 and OLED and 16bits per channel HDR and 24bit 3D LUT and 8k and 28" though hah, but it's the next big step!
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Czornyj
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2014, 07:18:00 AM »
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Viewing conditions have huge impact on the amount of detail in shadows and mid tones. PA272W is really neutral and linear, each is individually calibrated and verified with 20-30k Euro, lab-grade Konica-Minolta colorimeters and spectroradiometer. If the one you saw wasn't, someone must had make very nasty thing to it Wink

I agree that the NEC 272W is probably the best option today. I did a quick test that annoyed me slightly, however the monitor might not have been calibrated properly. If I, in Photoshop, filled the complete screen with black, then selected a rectangle in the middle of the screen, hid the selection frame and adjusted in levels so that I could increase the color of the area on step at a time I would notice that at around R=G=B= somewhere around 14 or 20 or so (don't recall exactly) the grey color would not stay neutral but shift to a slightly warmer grey.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 01:39:27 PM by Czornyj » Logged

WombatHorror
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2014, 06:40:20 PM »
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Viewing conditions have huge impact on the amount of detail in shadows and mid tones. PA272W is really neutral and linear, each is individually calibrated and verified with 20-30k Euro, lab-grade Konica-Minolta colorimeters and spectroradiometer. If the one you saw wasn't, someone must had make very nasty thing to it Wink


Agreed I've never seen one that took until step 20 to show above black!
It is true that for certain tone responses they seem to calibrate to more to absolute black than to relative, but even then it's only a few steps up, not 20 steps up.
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Czornyj
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2014, 07:02:30 PM »
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I saw a couple of PA272W and all had discernible shadow details without a trace of colour cast, which is nothing unusual for a factory, pedantically calibrated, 14(16) bit 3DLUT IPS display, or even something much less sophisticated.

Now if you flood the panel with a right amount of ambient light, you won't discern 20 or even 255 steps above black, it's all relative.
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WombatHorror
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2014, 09:12:06 PM »
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I saw a couple of PA272W and all had discernible shadow details without a trace of colour cast, which is nothing unusual for a factory, pedantically calibrated, 14(16) bit 3DLUT IPS display, or even something much less sophisticated.

Now if you flood the panel with a right amount of ambient light, you won't discern 20 or even 255 steps above black, it's all relative.

+1
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Roberto Chaves
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2014, 10:40:47 AM »
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Yeah one day we will have 16bit per channel HDR, OLED, 8k 28" 16:10 monitors with 24bit internal 3D LUTS and we will finally be set!  Grin

Exactly, and then being able to work without having to worry about the equipment Smiley
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Roberto Chaves
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2014, 10:43:57 AM »
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I saw a couple of PA272W and all had discernible shadow details without a trace of colour cast, which is nothing unusual for a factory, pedantically calibrated, 14(16) bit 3DLUT IPS display, or even something much less sophisticated.

Now if you flood the panel with a right amount of ambient light, you won't discern 20 or even 255 steps above black, it's all relative.


Guys, I think I was a bit unclear. With the display I was able to discern a change in luminosity from step 0 to step 1 and every step up..
The thing is that the grey box then suddenly shifted slightly from being neutral to less neutral, around step 20 or above..

When I tried the same thing with a full white screen going down from 255, it took me two steps, before I saw a clear difference, there was a hint of change between 255 and 254, and after 254 and down it was very clear.

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 Roberto Chaves
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pluton
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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2014, 12:47:24 AM »
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I've seen the $19K Sony OLED monitors at work(broadcast TV).  Color/contrast/picture quality-wise, they look the same as the previous $19K Sony LED monitor, except they weigh a lot less, which makes them easier to transport and set up in the field.  Prettiest color-TV picture you've ever seen.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2014, 12:58:09 AM »
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For what it is worth, I have been working with a NEC PA302W-BK for 2 weeks. It is running profiles generated from Spectraview II and a spider 4.

It is a very sweet screen!

The finish is pretty much perfect with low reflections but no noticeable matte micro-structure coming in the way.

Uniformity is excellent down to the edges and corners.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
WombatHorror
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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2014, 03:27:43 PM »
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I had calibrated an OLED Sony in a broadcast station, nothing to write home about. You don't really need that kind of super-hyper-high contrast to soft proof prints.

Not everything is about the print. Pure blacks are not to laughed-off.
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Czornyj
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« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2014, 08:30:46 AM »
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Not everything is about the print. Pure blacks are not to laughed-off.


Only when viewed in dark surround.
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