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Author Topic: which mfdb  (Read 877 times)
david distefano
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« on: March 02, 2014, 10:53:53 AM »
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with the following parameters, what would be the approximate mfdb's to look into.

1) max print size 24x30
2) view camera use as well as hasselblad 503
3) hasselblad zeiss lenses
4) schneider and rodenstock analog lenses
5) i don't need hour long exposure but 10 to 15 minutes would be about right
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kdphotography
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« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2014, 11:05:20 AM »
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If condition #5 is a hard-fast requirement for you, as in no wiggle-room, ---then that will be the determining factor.  It's all or none for the most part.  Most MFDBs will do well up to about a minute, maybe two minutes.  I do believe the P25/P25+, P30/P30+ (microlenses so limited view camera movements) and P45 are capable of ~30 minute long exposures.  Beyond that---look to the P45+ or IQ260, which truly are the better long exposure backs.
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david distefano
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« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2014, 11:11:47 AM »
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no the limiting factor are the lenses
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Theodoros
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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2014, 11:18:45 AM »
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with the following parameters, what would be the approximate mfdb's to look into.

1) max print size 24x30
2) view camera use as well as hasselblad 503
3) hasselblad zeiss lenses
4) schneider and rodenstock analog lenses
5) i don't need hour long exposure but 10 to 15 minutes would be about right

Anything of the past that is of 22mp and above and some recent… what price?
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Joe Towner
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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2014, 12:24:10 PM »
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So you're looking for a V mount, Phase or Leaf with a base iso of 50 (no microlenses), or a CFV-39.

Keep an eye on pages like Pre owned V backs but know unless you go for a P45+ you're going to be limited to ~1 minute exposures.

You didn't mention where you are, and honestly, you really should spend some time with a dealer on your existing kit to see if it will produce what you want, or if you're better off going for a newer model.  Remember, your amazing lenses are based on your experience so far, put them in front of a digital back and you may not love them as much.
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tho_mas
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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2014, 01:26:45 PM »
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1) max print size 24x30
any DB will do

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2) view camera use as well as hasselblad 503
here I would check how to power the back. Both when tethered and untethered. I think it's helpful when you can power the back by battery but still can tether to a laptop (with Phase backs this is working fine).

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4) schneider and rodenstock analog lenses
with "analog" you are referring to a set of lenses you already own, correct?
Some of the former analog LF lenses work fine on DBs, some are pretty weak (especially wides)... depending on the specific lens. A DB with larger pixel pitch will be more foregiving with regard to lens performance. For instance a P25/P25+ (9 microns pixel pitch) will work fine with many analog LF lenses. Larger pixel pitch is more prone to show moiré, though.

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5) i don't need hour long exposure but 10 to 15 minutes would be about right
Phase One. P25/P25+ or P45/P45+. Microlensed sensors like the P30/P30+ are very limited on tech cameras (the only microlensed back that is usable on a view camera is the P21/P21+ ... but also limited).



« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 01:28:52 PM by tho_mas » Logged
Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2014, 01:37:27 PM »
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with the following parameters, what would be the approximate mfdb's to look into.

1) max print size 24x30
2) view camera use as well as hasselblad 503
3) hasselblad zeiss lenses
4) schneider and rodenstock analog lenses
5) i don't need hour long exposure but 10 to 15 minutes would be about right



Normally, budget ceiling would be a necessary parameter as well (unless there wasn't one), if for no other reason than to narrow down the choices. Too often I see people driving themselves mad trying to consider and figure out every product that will do what they want to do, when they can only afford 40% of those products, etc. However, since you listed 10 - 15 minutes long exposure, that does a nice job already of minimizing your options.

*Phase One P45+, V or M Mount (M mount is a consideration with the P1 MultiMount Hasselblad V Adapter)
*Phase One IQ260, H, V or M Mount (M mount, see above, H mount is a consideration with the Hasselblad CF Adapter for H Camera)

You could also add P25+ - though it can produce a fine 24 x 30, you're right at the edge for critically discerning eyes in terms of flexibility (you have a frame that you'd like to crop by 50%, etc). Also, P30+, except using on a view camera is a condition, which will be a severely limited solution with the P30+ due to the extreme color casts.

Your inclusion of condition #4 cannot be answered without more specifically listing which lenses. When it comes to using older lenses, their performance on digital backs varies significantly. And determining which lenses will perform well may need to be a process of self discovery. In the event you need to shoot wide, a modern wide Schneider/Rodenstock is going to be superior, if not necessary. But for longer focal lengths, older lenses can certainly be a possibility for digital capture usage. Generally, you'll find more potential usability with a P25+ or P45+ than an IQ260 with older lenses.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration



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Steve Hendrix
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david distefano
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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2014, 02:27:41 PM »
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i was kind of leaning towards the p25+ because of the lenses, which are for the hasselblad, 50mm cf with the fle, 80mm cf, 120mm cf and 180mm cf and for the large format they are schneider 38xl, 58xl, 75mm, 120 digitar, 210 rodenstock and 300 mm nikkor lens. since the p30 does not fit part of my criteria, and i thought that the p45 would not work at peak performance with these lenses. that left the p25 as my only option.
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Theodoros
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2014, 03:34:54 PM »
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i was kind of leaning towards the p25+ because of the lenses, which are for the hasselblad, 50mm cf with the fle, 80mm cf, 120mm cf and 180mm cf and for the large format they are schneider 38xl, 58xl, 75mm, 120 digitar, 210 rodenstock and 300 mm nikkor lens. since the p30 does not fit part of my criteria, and i thought that the p45 would not work at peak performance with these lenses. that left the p25 as my only option.
P45+ will cope (just) with the lenses you mention… However, I would still aim for the P25+ (personal taste) which will additionally be more friendly on a tech camera though moire will be more than P45+… Dalsa 22 & 33mp backs are also to consider, if they are with in your reach, a Dalsa 33mp back would be my first choice with P25+ second… Dalsa 22mp will be the most friendly with View camera (shallower depth of pixels than P25+) and then Dalsa 33mp for the same reason. P25+ is very close for view camera compatibility though and it is a bit less prone to moire than Dalsa 22mp. Colours are more neutral with Dalsa sensors too (with 33mp being the absolute king among all backs), but P25+ has a certain character (bite) in its image which is unique to 22mp Kodak sensor backs (you may want to try that to see if it suits you), …it has been given a name, it's called the "fat pixel magic" and it has many fans, P45+ is very close to that look, but not quite there… there is a very small DR advantage with P25+ against P45+ too… You may also want to consider other versions of Kodak 22mp or 39mp backs (Hasselblad, Imacon), they are similar IQ wise. My preference on the Dalsa 33mp sensor is because it's quite resistant to moire, it has the best colour, it has superb DR and while the Raw as captured doesn't have the Kodak 22mp "bite", it can be easily "pushed" to achieve it… beats the rest for 400 Iso captures too (at least for the same "real" exposure). 
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torger
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2014, 08:53:14 AM »
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i was kind of leaning towards the p25+ because of the lenses, which are for the hasselblad, 50mm cf with the fle, 80mm cf, 120mm cf and 180mm cf and for the large format they are schneider 38xl, 58xl, 75mm, 120 digitar, 210 rodenstock and 300 mm nikkor lens. since the p30 does not fit part of my criteria, and i thought that the p45 would not work at peak performance with these lenses. that left the p25 as my only option.

If you think 22 megapixels is enough for your print (and cropping) needs, then it will probably be a good option, economical too. You should be aware though that if you shoot fabrics or architecture moire will disturb you more than it would with a P45+. I've use a 22 megapixel back some with my tech cam and I think for landscape the moire and aliasing issues are manageable, but if I'd shoot architecture I would really try to go for higher resolution just to reduce the moire issues, and if I would shoot a lot of fabrics it would be a no-go, for portraits you'd probably manage I guess as the fabrics will hopefully be a bit defocused most of the time.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2014, 10:11:45 AM »
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P45+ gets my vote.

P25+ is good as well, but moire resistance and resolution are better on the 45+.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
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Phase One IQ250 FAQ
kdphotography
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2014, 10:13:48 AM »
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I agree with Doug---get the P45+!

 Smiley
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david distefano
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2014, 11:06:47 AM »
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at first i wanted the p45+ but my fear was the lenses i have would not allow the best from the p45+ and i don't want to have to buy new lenses.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2014, 11:29:14 AM »
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at first i wanted the p45+ but my fear was the lenses i have would not allow the best from the p45+ and i don't want to have to buy new lenses.

I think you'll find results are excellent with most of your lenses when stopped down.

But it's really a simple problem to approach. Work with a good dealer to do the relevant tests. If that's us we'd be glad to help.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
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