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Author Topic: Movi on Skis  (Read 4574 times)
jjj
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« on: March 09, 2014, 02:57:27 PM »
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Here's a film showing off the MōVI's capabilities and some rather good skiing too.  Grin

This is the behind the scenes.


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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2014, 03:34:07 PM »
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Remarkable stuff.

'Gravity' but no cgi  Wink
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jjj
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2014, 03:38:04 PM »
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I so want a MōVI, as that would allow me to film the way I see things and make for more flexible setups when shooting drama. Plus I've always been a fan of long takes as they are far more engaging than scenes cut together and this helps with shooting them.
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neil snape
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2014, 01:03:39 AM »
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I've been questioning how it would be possible to film others skiing. I bought a Panasonic W30 which was terrible, IQ, poor stabilization. I went back to a Canon DSLR which is better but still terrible as the stabilization isn't made for skiing and filming. Stabilisation in FCPX is really good but the frame then moves around a lot ( black frame borders) .

That film was superbly done, and the camera made it happen.
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jjj
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2014, 08:45:10 PM »
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You need hardware like the MōVi or steadicam, not camera or software stabilisation to get smooth freestyle camera moves.
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bcooter
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2014, 01:43:32 PM »
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You need hardware like the MōVi or steadicam, not camera or software stabilisation to get smooth freestyle camera moves.



I am still researching all the 3 axis stabilizers and some are too complicated for fast work, some too limited, some too cheaply built, but all are a good idea to a point, though if you need someone on a joystick, someone pulling focus and someone running the stabilizer you can hire a steadicam guy and his focus puller and not worry about the overhead.

If you shoot wide, you don't have to worry too much about focus, try them with a longer lens and life gets more difficult and the stabilizers like MOVI take time to learn.   They're just not grab and shoot anything.

Though I have no doubt that someday this will all be handled by a combination of software and in camera stabilization.

The olympus em1 and em5 is freaky good, except for a weak codec and if one of these companies would put a slightly oversized sensor into their cameras, up the codec, and well, all I can say Panasonic are you listening?

Hollywood or should I say New Orleans, will probably never go to a software in camera use of stabilization because DP's and big budget love big cameras, love complicated stuff.   I think there are people that miss the maxwell.

IM0

BC
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jjj
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2014, 07:38:41 PM »
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I am still researching all the 3 axis stabilizers and some are too complicated for fast work, some too limited, some too cheaply built, but all are a good idea to a point, though if you need someone on a joystick, someone pulling focus and someone running the stabilizer you can hire a steadicam guy and his focus puller and not worry about the overhead.
The MōVi and Steadicam are slightly different tools, not exactly interchangeable, but with some areas where they crossover. I don't think the MōVi is any cheaper to run either.
I'm currently considering a potential shoot in Africa where flexibility is key, so no dollies, jibs etc. Just a MōVi /steadicam and some Gyrocopters. Need to knock a script out first though.

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If you shoot wide, you don't have to worry too much about focus, try them with a longer lens and life gets more difficult and the stabilizers like MOVI take time to learn.   They're just not grab and shoot anything.
Most film work takes practice. And you don't tend to shoot other than wide wide lenses anyway with these sorts of things.
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bcooter
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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2014, 07:15:52 PM »
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The MōVi and Steadicam are slightly different tools, not exactly interchangeable, but with some areas where they crossover. I don't think the MōVi is any cheaper to run either.
I'm currently considering a potential shoot in Africa where flexibility is key, so no dollies, jibs etc. Just a MōVi /steadicam and some Gyrocopters. Need to knock a script out first though.
Most film work takes practice. And you don't tend to shoot other than wide wide lenses anyway with these sorts of things.

Yes they are different tools, but most people will do the same things with a 3 axis stabilizer that they do with a steadicam, which is walk in front or behind a subject(s) that is walking or running.

For quick work when we travel we rent a wheelchair from a medical supply and throw a 1/2 or full apple in the seat.   It's not perfect, obviously can't do rough terrain, but it's a cheap way to track and to make movements without much of a learning curve.     If you practice your arms make a good stabilizer and can be quite smooth, unless the camera weighs 20 lbs.

Still, I think someday this will all be covered with electronics.   it's possible now, can get better if some company put some effort into it.

IMO

BC
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2014, 04:22:12 AM »
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JJJ

I dont think Movis (or cheaper siblings) are anywhere near being beyond a niche tool yet. the pan/tilt (even with a second op) are laggy and insensitive, (do you want to control your camera with joysticks from a childs RC car!?)

The lack of fine control means they cant tell whole stories yet.

Also unlike a steadicam and arm they are not stabilised in the XYZ axes so bounce and shake when you walk/run

Great on snow or in the air though!

S

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jjj
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« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2014, 10:43:29 AM »
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BC - I was given a wheelchair for filming by a copper friend as the hospital didn't want it back. Sadly the chair was a bit ropey, so not much cop.
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jjj
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« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2014, 10:48:53 AM »
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I dont think Movis (or cheaper siblings) are anywhere near being beyond a niche tool yet
Did I say they were mass market tools. They are however cheap by movie standards.

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The lack of fine control means they cant tell whole stories yet.
Yet you can capture nice shots with them and that's what they will be used for. Not sure what you mean by 'can't tell whole stories'. You can tell a story with a single camera on a tripod.

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Also unlike a steadicam and arm they are not stabilised in the XYZ axes so bounce and shake when you walk/run
And why I said MōVis and steadicams were different tools.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2014, 10:54:21 AM »
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Really I was replying to the spirit of your quote..

I so want a MōVI, as that would allow me to film the way I see things and make for more flexible setups when shooting drama. Plus I've always been a fan of long takes as they are far more engaging than scenes cut together and this helps with shooting them.

Im not seeing the Movi etc as really capable of that yet.
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jjj
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« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2014, 01:46:36 PM »
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Ah, fair enough. Though I think it can, just as with all tools you work with its limits and from sequences I've seen it's good enough for many things I could envisage filming.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2014, 02:07:10 AM »
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Ive seen nothing. The things all have a telltale drag and slightly robotic feel.

Yes for specialist shots, no for narative 'oners' IMO
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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2014, 07:02:46 PM »
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I'm sure you would have slagged off Steadicams if you'd seen some footage done using them immediately after it was first invented and people hadn't learnt the tool yet.  Tongue
I came across this test footage of someone playing with their new toy and yes some of the shots could have been done a tad better but seeing as they managed to shoot fairly decent 2.20min of 'action' footage in an hour with a new tool, I'm sure one can get better stuff once you are more familiar with how things work.
Being able to dispense with dollys and sliders at times as well as being able to get moves currently not possible will save time and that's the key thing for me. Time that can be spent on the actors or to save money.
All tools have limitations and as I said above you can shoot a movie with a camera sitting on a tripod, but as long as you use a tool within it's limits and play to its strengths, then there isn't an issue. Alternatively you go the Peter Greengrass/This Life style and go for the no-stabilisation look and that can work too - with the right script/camera crew.
And I wouldn't exactly describe the shots in this robotic.

 
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2014, 11:27:11 AM »
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I have high hopes of the Movi - do you think I enjoy laying track? Do you think Im not aware that it takes valuable time?

The trouble with these 'test' vids is that they are testing what?

Until one knows what one is testing a test cant be passed or failed.

When I see a video with a voice over describing the intention of the shot and then showing it being done then really 'tests' are of little value.

So much real filming is timing

Seriously Ive done a shot (on sticks) of someone sitting up from lying down in bed - just operating the pan up in good synch with the talent is no mean feat

It is  totally different game to film with intention compared to running around the park with nice toys.

The thing with the Movi is there is virtually no footage with 'intention' The Burton factory shoot was one and you will see some great Movi tricks and also some horrid lags and marks missed by a mile.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlUfT2ZWSUY

S
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« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2014, 12:33:51 PM »
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I have high hopes of the Movi - do you think I enjoy laying track? Do you think Im not aware that it takes valuable time?
The trouble with these 'test' vids is that they are testing what?
I hazard a guess they are testing what one can do with the kit and the answer is quite a lot. So once you have more practice and start doing multiple takes then you'll be producing accurate shots.

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Until one knows what one is testing a test cant be passed or failed.
When I see a video with a voice over describing the intention of the shot and then showing it being done then really 'tests' are of little value.
Uh, it's not an exam, it's a test of ability, so no passing or failing as such.
Also they show to others what is possible and what isn't. So they can be very useful in my and it seems many other's view.

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So much real filming is timing
Seriously Ive done a shot (on sticks) of someone sitting up from lying down in bed - just operating the pan up in good synch with the talent is no mean feat
So that seems to imply that you'd struggle with a Movi too.  Tongue
I was working on a BBC shoot with several shots like you describe and I don't recall any difficulty with doing them, you practice a few times and then when you shoot everyone hits their marks. But then professional actors and an experienced crew make many things look easy, but even then several takes were always done. Also the right grip equipment helps enormously, tilts up and down with not so fluid or incorrectly dampened heads are very tricky.

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It is  totally different game to film with intention compared to running around the park with nice toys.
The thing with the Movi is there is virtually no footage with 'intention' The Burton factory shoot was one and you will see some great Movi tricks and also some horrid lags and marks missed by a mile.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlUfT2ZWSUY
So what are the terrible mistake and errors that ruined that Burton film then? As I saw an entertaining advert showing off a factory, which is quite a challenge to do. While you are at it find me a Hollywood film without any mistakes either.
I think you are too busy looking at the technique and ignoring the content. Pixel peeping for cinema!  Grin
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2014, 04:46:23 PM »
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The burton film is fun. But can you not see that the touch is missing - there is a wonderful humanity to good operating steadicam sticks or handheld where the camera and the talent just synch in a sort of dance. There is Robotic delay and look to movis - and that is at 14mm - with a long it becomes more pronounced.

You either see it or you don't.  

Certain the movi is good enough to please clients..
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« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2014, 08:26:25 PM »
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The burton film is fun. But can you not see that the touch is missing - there is a wonderful humanity to good operating steadicam sticks or handheld where the camera and the talent just synch in a sort of dance. There is Robotic delay and look to movis - and that is at 14mm - with a long it becomes more pronounced.
You either see it or you don't
And the glaring mistakes I asked you to point out are....?
Do you know how long it takes to become really good with a steadicam? There's no way one could do footage as good as that shown by first timers using the Movi without an awful lot of steadicam practice. Plus the Movi's  still a new tool remember.  I'm sure lag can be adjusted in the control settings and with experience people will get better with it and hopefully ease up on the impossible shots, as they'll get tiring pretty quickly.
The fact that it gives a different look to a steadicam is not even a problem for me. If you want a steadicam look, use a steadicam. They're different tools and the steadicam look was probably viewed as not right when it first appeared too by some folks.   Tongue

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Certain the movi is good enough to please clients..
Which is the only relevant thing.
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