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Author Topic: arbitrary RGB profiles for opening RAW  (Read 13603 times)
samueljohnchia
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« Reply #80 on: April 13, 2014, 03:45:54 AM »
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I have looked at the various prints under supposed;y flu spectrum lighting and can't see any difference. Can you tell me your visual impression of the Saturation intent print? this should be the one with the most noticeable change I would think. If you could point out which part of the image to examine I would appreciate it. Maybe post a crop of side by side with relative.

Here you go. It's a crop of the color gradients and color patches from the Outback modified test image, tiff format, with screenshots as layers. The background layer is relative colorimetric (no bpc), and perceptual and saturation are labelled accordingly. I converted using a custom profile I made with i1Profiler, which is what the newer Epson profiles are made with too.

As expected, Perceptual maintains better separation along the gamut boundary, and relative colorimetric appears to clip colors outside the printer's gamut. Saturation boosts the saturation of colors significantly.
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Hening Bettermann
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« Reply #81 on: April 13, 2014, 04:18:51 PM »
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Samueljohnchia,
I see only 1 image with no labels - ?
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samueljohnchia
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« Reply #82 on: April 13, 2014, 06:38:59 PM »
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Samueljohnchia,
I see only 1 image with no labels - ?

You have to download it and open it in Photoshop. It's a tiff file with layers. The layers are labelled accordingly.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 05:37:35 AM by samueljohnchia » Logged
Hening Bettermann
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« Reply #83 on: April 14, 2014, 05:18:36 AM »
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Ooops! Thank you.
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Lundberg02
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« Reply #84 on: April 14, 2014, 03:16:48 PM »
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i certainly thank you for the effort involved in making that image. I was able to see a noticeable shift in saturation between the perceptual layer and the saturation layer, but only in the second horizontal bar in the magenta. Without using a spectrometer, I don't see any differences in that same bar in my prints from Photoshop and Photoline.
Your image on my sRGB monitor is more saturated than my prints to begin with.
I  don't think I know what is up with all this.
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samueljohnchia
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« Reply #85 on: April 14, 2014, 06:50:15 PM »
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i certainly thank you for the effort involved in making that image. I was able to see a noticeable shift in saturation between the perceptual layer and the saturation layer, but only in the second horizontal bar in the magenta. Without using a spectrometer, I don't see any differences in that same bar in my prints from Photoshop and Photoline.

If the only difference you see in my tiff on your sRGB (I'm assuming it's full sRGB coverage) display is in just the magenta patches, I can't help you. I have looked at it on my lowly laptop display which has only about 70% sRGB coverage, and I can see differences almost everywhere, but it's just a lot harder to see them in the lighter, less colorful patches. Have you taken the X-rite color test before? What is your score?

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Your image on my sRGB monitor is more saturated than my prints to begin with.

Well, its a crop of Outbackphoto's ProPhoto RGB printer test image, not mine, rendered into one of my custom printer profiles.  Wink The lighter and less colorful patches as well as the near-white and near-black parts of the gradients are definitely possible colors in many real world color images, and may be more useful for your judgement.

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I  don't think I know what is up with all this.

Certainly if your images comprise a tiny gamut, well within sRGB, then the differences between rendering intents will be small and difficult to see in side-by-side prints or side by side on a display. The flash-to-compare trick with layered renderings or using the preview function in Photoshop's soft proofing makes it a great deal easier to catch subtle differences. Then look out for those differences in your prints. It's a great way to train your eyes.
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Lundberg02
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« Reply #86 on: April 15, 2014, 12:56:45 AM »
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I have that color test, but haven't used it yet. My printer's gamut is larger than sRGB according to ColorSync  Utility, it's a six color.  I'm going to check all settings in Photoshop and PhotoLine again, but I have a stack of eight prints that all look  identical to me. They were all printed to bright copy paper to save money, using the appropriate Epson settings.  The paper could be part of the problem, I suppose, but the fact that Saturation shows no effect is almost impossible to believe.
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Lundberg02
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« Reply #87 on: April 15, 2014, 05:41:51 PM »
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I checked all settings and printed the ProPhoto printer eval again in Saturation and Perceptual on Epson Presentation Matte. Can see no difference.  I think I'm being color managed by an invisible geek who has decided to give me the same output no matter what I input. I downloaded an aRGB target that I will try the intents on later today.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #88 on: April 15, 2014, 05:43:43 PM »
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I checked all settings and printed the ProPhoto printer eval again in Saturation and Perceptual on Epson Presentation Matte. Can see no difference. 
Next stop: http://www.xrite.com/online-color-test-challenge
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Andrew Rodney
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Lundberg02
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« Reply #89 on: April 17, 2014, 10:47:16 PM »
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I'll be taking the test, but I really can't see how it applies to looking at eight prints that aren't different, and particularly because I can see differences in the layers that samueljohnchia created without a problem
By the way, Andrew, your digitaldog page doesn't display properly in Safari. I've looked at in every version of Safari from 3 to 7 and the text overlaps itself all over the page. I have never been able to download your aRGB image because the link is covered up by other text.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #90 on: April 18, 2014, 09:50:11 AM »
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I'll be taking the test, but I really can't see how it applies to looking at eight prints that aren't different, and particularly because I can see differences in the layers that samueljohnchia created without a problem
Well doesn't samueljohnchia see the differences? If so, maybe you're color blind. That's about the only explanation I can come up with for your inability to see the differences the rest of us see all the time on all manner of images we work with.
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By the way, Andrew, your digitaldog page doesn't display properly in Safari. I've looked at in every version of Safari from 3 to 7 and the text overlaps itself all over the page. I have never been able to download your aRGB image because the link is covered up by other text.
It's fine on this end just as the issues you raise in 5 pages here seem only to affect you. We're getting nowhere,time to move on.
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Andrew Rodney
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Lundberg02
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« Reply #91 on: April 18, 2014, 04:33:41 PM »
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It's actually the tips and tricks page of your site, sorry. It does the same thing in Firefox. The line spacing is not rendered correctly and text is laid on top of one another. I am not color blind, attested to by several eminent organizations including the US Navy and Air Force.  I do see the differences samuel posted as layers, and in other sites on the web.  I am going to get to the bottom of this eventually.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #92 on: April 18, 2014, 04:40:15 PM »
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It's actually the tips and tricks page of your site, sorry. It does the same thing in Firefox. The line spacing is not rendered correctly and text is laid on top of one another.
Again, this is some issue only you have reported in the years and years that page has been up. No issue on this end! Proof:

Some of us ARE trying to help you but short of paying you a visit (for pay), there isn't much more I can do to help you either with the web page which appears just fine or with the differences in seeing the rendering intent upon images. Sorry.
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Andrew Rodney
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http://digitaldog.net/
Lundberg02
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« Reply #93 on: April 18, 2014, 06:15:45 PM »
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Well, I was sure your end would look ok. So, no one else has ever reported that the text was overprinted. Weird.
I can now report that the PDI target downloaded from g ballad's page, aRGB jpg, definitely shows differences in all four renderings on copy paper with the appropriate settings in Photoshop manages color.  Going back to my ProPhoto prints from Photoshop  and knowing what to look for, I can see the same slight difference in the faces.
I've learned quite a bit from this exercise, and I hope I haven't wasted a lot of anyone's time. Thank you all.
Don't hate me for being popular, it's such a grind.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #94 on: April 18, 2014, 06:17:23 PM »
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Well, I was sure your end would look ok. So, no one else has ever reported that the text was overprinted.

Correct!
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Andrew Rodney
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Bryan Conner
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« Reply #95 on: April 18, 2014, 11:24:53 PM »
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The tips and tricks page on Andrew's site works perfectly for me in both Firefox and Google Chrome.
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Lundberg02
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« Reply #96 on: April 19, 2014, 12:41:53 AM »
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I guess I'm in for another endless browser malfunction google .
Sidenote: I have tried Iridient and it was ghastly, so I hope to send the developer a screenshot of how it opened my RAW. He was very prompt replying when I asked about the original subject of this thread, so I hope he can explain what is happening to my file from a camera that it is supposed to support and does in fact appear in their list of input. It came out as an overexposed magenta only image. Pretty disconcerting, since ACR and several other apps handle it nicely.
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Lundberg02
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« Reply #97 on: April 20, 2014, 01:18:35 AM »
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rather than search endlessly, I went into Sfari Preferences and changed the encoding to Western Roman Mac and the minimim font to 14 point. That almost cured the text overlap. I'll do much the same in Firefox. I was able to download the aRGB tif at last.
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Lundberg02
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« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2014, 12:19:39 AM »
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I case anyone is still reading this thread, I had a problem with a RAW file in Iridient Developer 2.3.4. The developer confirmed it and is releasing 2.3.5 late this week.
This is a public service announcement and I approved this message.
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