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Author Topic: Pentax 645Z  (Read 40266 times)
BernardLanguillier
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« on: April 02, 2014, 05:28:38 PM »
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It seems that the new Pentax 645D will be announced on April 15.

Cheers,
Bernard
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« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2014, 07:52:56 PM »
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Excellent news. Any idea about the pricing?
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Ken R
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2014, 10:45:30 PM »
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More info:

http://www.us.ricoh-imaging.com/645z/

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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2014, 04:56:33 AM »
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Excellent news. Any idea about the pricing?

My guess would be around 9,000 US$ street price in Tokyo, but we will know in a few days for sure.

Cheers,
Bernard
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« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2014, 09:16:12 AM »
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Hopefully the announcement will be more than just that:

1.  Give a real ship date (and Pentax Ricoh make that date) unlike the 645D
2.  Allow for a better U.S. and worldwide dealer support network for both support and warranty repairs.
3.  Announce that there will now be a U.S. repair center  (I don't believe one exists currently)
4.  New lenses are also being either planned or announced at the same time (like the 35mm FA which seems to still be sold overseas new, but not in the US)
5.  Tethering support will be available, I will be curious on this since I don't think Capture One planes to support this camera?  LR?  Pentax's own software? 

Paul 


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eronald
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« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2014, 11:52:21 AM »
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Hopefully the announcement will be more than just that:

1.  Give a real ship date (and Pentax Ricoh make that date) unlike the 645D
2.  Allow for a better U.S. and worldwide dealer support network for both support and warranty repairs.
3.  Announce that there will now be a U.S. repair center  (I don't believe one exists currently)
4.  New lenses are also being either planned or announced at the same time (like the 35mm FA which seems to still be sold overseas new, but not in the US)
5.  Tethering support will be available, I will be curious on this since I don't think Capture One planes to support this camera?  LR?  Pentax's own software?  

Paul  

I think they are doing demos, later this month, in Tokyo and Osaka
http://digicame-info.com/2014/04/645d.html

This company has sold cameras for at least 50 years. Let's assume they know their business and not make up demands.

What is interesting is how they brought the MF project back to life after canceling it. The current availability of 40MP "sale" backs seems to indicate that they could put the original 645D on sale too.

Edmund

« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 11:54:16 AM by eronald » Logged
Paul2660
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« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2014, 01:55:11 PM »
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I think they are doing demos, later this month, in Tokyo and Osaka
http://digicame-info.com/2014/04/645d.html

This company has sold cameras for at least 50 years. Let's assume they know their business and not make up demands.

What is interesting is how they brought the MF project back to life after canceling it. The current availability of 40MP "sale" backs seems to indicate that they could put the original 645D on sale too.

Edmund



Lets hope for their sake they do, but just because they have been in business over 50 years, really means very little in today's world.  The way this same company handled the 645D announcement and then roll-out did not show me that they "know their business and not make up demands".  As I recall, the 645D was about the longest product in the modern era to go from talked about to delivered.  The camera was shown for at least 3 years under glass in various body configurations before finally shipping.  When it did ship, most U.S companies many that have been in business as long as 50 years or longer, would not carry the camera or lenses.  It became more available after about 1 year of the first units shipping. 

I don't see that as being very progressive and so far Pentax Ricoh is taking pretty much the same approach.  If they are demoing it Japan and Asia, next week, that also tells me they consider that market where they need to be. 

I don't see the current U.S. dealer statue is not much different than it was in 2010.  Currently in the U.S Ricoh is known for copies and various other office equipment.

Paul

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Paul Caldwell
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« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2014, 02:42:41 PM »
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As for being shown under glass, Pentax went broke, in the big film-to-digital consolidation. I think it's amazing something got made in the end. When you look what remains of Kodak or Fuji Film ...

Edmund

Lets hope for their sake they do, but just because they have been in business over 50 years, really means very little in today's world.  The way this same company handled the 645D announcement and then roll-out did not show me that they "know their business and not make up demands".  As I recall, the 645D was about the longest product in the modern era to go from talked about to delivered.  The camera was shown for at least 3 years under glass in various body configurations before finally shipping.  When it did ship, most U.S companies many that have been in business as long as 50 years or longer, would not carry the camera or lenses.  It became more available after about 1 year of the first units shipping.  

I don't see that as being very progressive and so far Pentax Ricoh is taking pretty much the same approach.  If they are demoing it Japan and Asia, next week, that also tells me they consider that market where they need to be.  

I don't see the current U.S. dealer statue is not much different than it was in 2010.  Currently in the U.S Ricoh is known for copies and various other office equipment.

Paul


« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 02:53:35 PM by eronald » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 04:18:12 PM »
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For sure I agree on Kodak, but it seems to me that Fuji-Film is doing very well in digital, at least from what I have read.  The Fuji-X cameras have quite a good following, not as large as Nikon or Canon, but still seem to have quite a presence. 

I hope Pentax/Ricoh makes this camera and can deliver it as it hits a really large potential market, those that don't want the up front cost of a MF back, camera, etc. but still want to move into a 50MP class sensor.  From what I have seen in the Phase One IQ250 shots posted this is a great sensor.

Paul
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« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2014, 04:51:44 PM »
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Fuji wisely used their technology to enter not only photo-related markets but also others, like cosmetics, seemingly unrelated. Cameras & lenses are indulgences for them. Kodak, OTOH, was run by some of the most clueless "managers" ever to walk upright. Thus their respective fates.

I dunno about Ricoh. I hope they make a big splash with the new Pentax 645 and then parlay it into something substantial. But we shall see...

The price of the current 645D was dropped substantially a while back...that's when I bought mine.   Smiley  I'd expect further discounting if the remaining supply warrants it.

-Dave-
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Brian Hirschfeld
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« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2014, 07:21:02 PM »
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So I'm confused, is the Pentax 645Z their CMOS camera?
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2014, 07:57:21 PM »
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In all probability, yes…

Best regards
Erik


So I'm confused, is the Pentax 645Z their CMOS camera?
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Brian Hirschfeld
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« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2014, 08:07:13 PM »
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Ah, okay thanks, so it's just some marketing hype and what not. I'm sure it has the potential to be a great / affordable camera especially considering how deep pentax's 645 line of lenses goes so it will be interesting to see what surfaces.

That being said anyone getting too excited about the "unknown" of it seems to be a bit much since its the same damn camera as the Hasselblad and PhaseOne cameras based off of the same damn Sony sensor (which will also be in the Sony MFD mirror-less camera if they actually make that a la the rumors). So basically all that leaves us with are the hardware specs and the image processing algorithms to get excited about...In a market with that little differentiation I can certainly see how people can say that medium format digital is a dying breed.

Personally thats one of the reasons why I get personally excited thinking about the current PhaseOne line-up in the sense that they have differentiation between their products, IQ180 ~ High-res, IQ260 ~ long exposure, IQ260 Achromatic ~ (well its in the name isn't it), and to a lesser extent the IQ250 (high-ISO)...all of these different cameras feature something different and, I believe differentiation builds stronger products for more specific applications, which in some ways may be a less viable business strategy then the convergence which has plagued lesser (smaller) formats...when you look back at the film days with all the different formats and cameras within those formats, I believe photographers had greater creative control simply by the piece of equipment the chose to pick up and take out with them that day.

But maybe Pentax will surprise us..
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2014, 01:08:59 AM »
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That being said anyone getting too excited about the "unknown" of it seems to be a bit much since its the same damn camera as the Hasselblad and PhaseOne cameras based off of the same damn Sony sensor (which will also be in the Sony MFD mirror-less camera if they actually make that a la the rumors). So basically all that leaves us with are the hardware specs and the image processing algorithms to get excited about...In a market with that little differentiation I can certainly see how people can say that medium format digital is a dying breed.

when you look back at the film days with all the different formats and cameras within those formats, I believe photographers had greater creative control simply by the piece of equipment the chose to pick up and take out with them that day.

Really? You are not excited by the possibility to shoot at ISO50,000 using a weather proofed stabilized modern 90mm lens at 50 megapixel with the closest thing to B&W film DR?

I'd be surprised if properly scanned 4x5 film were superior image qualitywise, this thing probably offers a better image quality at ISO 25,000 than a Canon 1DX/D4s,... so yes, it is less specialized than most specialized film cameras... but it still does things incredibly better than most of them.

I am not sure how this doesn't open up creative doors for creative photographers.

If it does sell at less than 10,000 US$...

Cheers,
Bernard
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robert zimmerman
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« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2014, 06:34:17 AM »
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The Pentax Zzzzz. I kind of agree with Brian.
There's a lot to be said for a camera system that doesn't try to be everything, but tries to be something unique.
Maybe it's suicide on a business level, but for example, as a "creative door" I like the Rolleiflex twin lens cameras. They're very limited and very specific, they enable (make) you to shoot in a certain way, with a single focal length, they're very high quality, they are very fun to use and you can use them for decades.
I know, that makes zero sense to the digital, do it all for less, world view. But on a photographic or artistic level they have something special.

I'm not wanting for a digital Rolleiflex, but I wouldn't mind that kind of thinking in the "kind of large" sensor camera business. Dare to be less on some level and much much more on a different level, not just the price level.


Really? You are not excited by the possibility to shoot at ISO50,000 using a weather proofed stabilized modern 90mm lens at 50 megapixel with the closest thing to B&W film DR?

I'd be surprised if properly scanned 4x5 film were superior image qualitywise, this thing probably offers a better image quality at ISO 25,000 than a Canon 1DX/D4s,... so yes, it is less specialized than most specialized film cameras... but it still does things incredibly better than most of them.

I am not sure how this doesn't open up creative doors for creative photographers.

If it does sell at less than 10,000 US$...

Cheers,
Bernard

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eronald
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« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2014, 08:08:09 AM »
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There was an initial consolidation when only Nikon and Canon could do digital well, now an explosion in cropped-sensor cameras. The same will probably happen in MF in a few years, with an explosion of very different cameras as the technology percolates through the market.

Edmund

The Pentax Zzzzz. I kind of agree with Brian.
There's a lot to be said for a camera system that doesn't try to be everything, but tries to be something unique.
Maybe it's suicide on a business level, but for example, as a "creative door" I like the Rolleiflex twin lens cameras. They're very limited and very specific, they enable (make) you to shoot in a certain way, with a single focal length, they're very high quality, they are very fun to use and you can use them for decades.
I know, that makes zero sense to the digital, do it all for less, world view. But on a photographic or artistic level they have something special.

I'm not wanting for a digital Rolleiflex, but I wouldn't mind that kind of thinking in the "kind of large" sensor camera business. Dare to be less on some level and much much more on a different level, not just the price level.


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Ken R
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« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2014, 09:07:11 AM »
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There was an initial consolidation when only Nikon and Canon could do digital well, now an explosion in cropped-sensor cameras. The same will probably happen in MF in a few years, with an explosion of very different cameras as the technology percolates through the market.

Edmund


Before that happens we are going to see a move to Full Frame 35mm size Mirrorless Camera systems. Eventually Nikon and Canon will get into the act. The Sony A7 and A7R are great first efforts. We will see better E viewfinders, AF and speed on the next gens. The Olympus OM-S E-M1 is good enough for people to forget DSLRs, but it has a smaller sensor. Make a E-M1 like body with a great Sony full frame sensor and the game will change.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2014, 11:32:28 AM »
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That being said anyone getting too excited about the "unknown" of it seems to be a bit much since its the same damn camera as the Hasselblad and PhaseOne cameras based off of the same damn Sony sensor (which will also be in the Sony MFD mirror-less camera if they actually make that a la the rumors). So basically all that leaves us with are the hardware specs and the image processing algorithms to get excited about...

I would propose that in addition to "Hardware specs, image processing algorithms" are other important factors like:
- price
- color look
- lens quality
- lens look
- long exposure performance
- sync speed
- warranty/service
- availability in rental
- knowledge of techs/assistants on a particular system
- buffer depth, shooting speed consistency
- tethering speed
- tethering stability
- tethering features
- autofocus speed/consistency/features
- availability/performance/quality of live view
- performance in diverse weather/temperatures and sealing
- quality/type of grain rendered at a given ISO (NOT guaranteed to be the same even if they use the same base sensor)
- ergonomics
- compatibility with tech cameras
- compatibility with view cameras
- on camera features like focus mask
- user interface niceties like customizable/movable grids/guide, customizable exposure warning
- other features like WiFi

Some of the above list will favor Phase One, some will favor Leaf, some will favor Pentax, some will favor Hassy. The sensor is an important part of a camera, but even regarding image quality it's only part of the story. And image quality is only a small part of the overall story of how a camera does or does not work for a particular application/person.

See also my article on the IQ250 Origin Story.
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« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2014, 01:00:58 PM »
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Fuji wisely used their technology to enter not only photo-related markets but also others, like cosmetics, seemingly unrelated. Cameras & lenses are indulgences for them. Kodak, OTOH, was run by some of the most clueless "managers" ever to walk upright. Thus their respective fates.
Like so many makers of photographic products, these have for a long time been only a small part of Fujifilm's business; "Imaging Solutions" delivers only about 13% of its revenues: http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/investors/performance_and_finance/segment_information/index.html
However the overall size and financial health of Fujifilm does not tell us how well the part that we care about as photographers is doing, or what its future is. Even big, profitable conglomerates can cut loose divisions that are persistently unprofitable, or just insufficiently profitable: Panasonic has talked about such plans, and Kyocera abruptly shut down its photographic division Yashica/Contax in 2005, even though the parent company was not in financial trouble.

Not that I have any reason to either suspect or hope that "Fujifilm Imaging Solutions" is in trouble; the X system is the coolest of the recently launched "post-SLR" photographic systems!


P.S. Fujifilm still sells lots of film: actual transparent plastic film, which has many uses other that coating it with photographic emulsions.
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« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2014, 02:47:11 PM »
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So basically the new Sony CMOS 50MP chip is going into many different cameras with a wide variety of feature sets.

Sounds good to me!
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