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Author Topic: Pentax 645Z  (Read 39336 times)
ecarmel
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« Reply #360 on: August 23, 2014, 10:14:43 AM »
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I have recently purchased the Pentax 645z camera and the 45-85mm zoom, 150-300mm zoom, still waiting for the 28-45 Zoom to be released. I am thrilled with the output of this camera and the cmos sensor. I have the Hasselblad H5D 50 and it actually exceeds the performance of that camera / lens combo for landscape work. I was going to upgrade to the H5D 50C (I need the higher iso capability) but the price for even an upgrade was so much higher than the 645Z with lenses, so that decision was easy. The main advantage of this camera over the D810 (I have a D800) is that with the 645Z I can make much larger prints - more pixels equals exponentially better enlargement ability. I regularly do prints 6 feet to 10 feet in size and need the MF resolution. This is not just my blind opinion but is from my 15 years of making art prints and pixel peeping every file and print.  If you just shoot for web or smaller prints then why bother with the expense and hassle of MF bodies and lenses? This new Pentax 645z is a game changer for MF at this price point. Michael I am pleased to hear you are also getting one, I look forward to hearing more of your impressions on this system and your opinion on the lenses.

Elizabeth Carmel
www.ElizabethCarmel.com
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eronald
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« Reply #361 on: August 23, 2014, 10:25:43 AM »
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This is becoming a landslide vote of approval for the Pentax.

Who knows, P and H might get the message and lower body prices; clearly the lens-lock in is not going to do it for them when you can get a full set of lenses with the Pentax for the price of a P or H body alone.

I think that the  used resale value of the Hasselblad and Phase One low end solutions has effectively been halved.

Edmund
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Paul2660
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« Reply #362 on: August 23, 2014, 10:50:22 AM »
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I actually purchased both the 35mm A and the FA for use on my 645D and tested them thoroughly. Even at optimum apertures (around f11) the 35 A (manual focus) lens was the best no question. The 35mm FA (at least the one I had) never had sharp corners at any aperture. In the extreme corners it was extremely noticeable (the reduced sharpness). It was odd but at closer focus distances (10 feet) it performed much better but since I wanted it for landscapes the performance at infinity focus was very important to me so the 35mm A won easily. In fact I still have it here. I tried to sell it for a while but no one snatched it even at $400. I still have the 120mm A and the 45-85mm FA. (again, put em up for sale, ebay and FM and no one...). Both lenses are also really good at f11 which is basically my mostly used aperture for landscapes.


Sadly the 35mm FA lenses made in Vietnam had a pretty wide sample variation. Mine was excellent as I was shifting it 18mm per side on the Zork.   Not sure where the new ones will be made.

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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« Reply #363 on: August 23, 2014, 11:10:34 AM »
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It simply is what it is. The Leica S and Pentax 645 are all-in-one cameras. Some benefits, some downsides.

What till Photokina. There will be some interesting alternatives!. Wink

M

Exactly.

Although The Leica S/S2 has factory adapters available to use Hasselblad V, Mamiya 645, Pentax 67, Hasselblad H and Contax 645 lenses that makes it very versatile in regards to lens selection. Gotta give it to Leica for making the adapters.

Can't wait for photokina.
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leeonmaui
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« Reply #364 on: August 23, 2014, 07:21:56 PM »
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Aloha,

Michael I am more than pleased with your review of the Pentax.
I had my concerns that you would find fault with the camera, and not take it seriously.
I have been using my 645D  for three years and when thing go well, and they often do:
"Angels sing"
Pentax gets very little respect in the medium format arena now days

Now to hear you are purchasing a system really pleases me,
Not only because I know you will thoroughly enjoy it, but it really sends a positive message about the gear.
As many people, myself included, have a good deal of respect to what you say. 
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Radu Arama
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« Reply #365 on: August 24, 2014, 01:14:41 AM »
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Expect the new Pentax software for tethering end of September.

Radu
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Manoli
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« Reply #366 on: August 24, 2014, 01:30:21 AM »
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Expect the new Pentax software for tethering end of September.

Source ?
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Radu Arama
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« Reply #367 on: August 24, 2014, 03:24:46 AM »
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Source ?

September 26th to be more precised!

Radu

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20140711_657504.html
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Paul2660
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« Reply #368 on: August 24, 2014, 06:37:55 AM »
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Does anyone know when the 645Z will get into a "available" status on either Adorama or B&H Photo?  It's beenj in a available for back order status since the announcement. Or when it will start to shop in volume? 

Also to any US buyers,  is there a US service center?  Or do repairs still have to go to Japan.

Thanks
Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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michael
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« Reply #369 on: August 24, 2014, 07:05:39 AM »
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B&H showed the 645z as in stock a couple of weeks ago, but it would appear that they sold out.

I am told that demand is far exceeding supply in most world markets.

Michael
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Paul2660
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« Reply #370 on: August 24, 2014, 07:17:53 AM »
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Michael

Thanks looks like they definitely have a winner on their hands.

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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eronald
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« Reply #371 on: August 24, 2014, 07:22:13 AM »
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B&H showed the 645z as in stock a couple of weeks ago, but it would appear that they sold out.

I am told that demand is far exceeding supply in most world markets.

Michael


That's very good news. Pentax will doubtless start cranking out lenses if they are selling bodies.
Hopefully Phase and Hasselblad will now also review their pricing; their policies had starved and all but killed this market segment.

Edmund
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Theodoros
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« Reply #372 on: August 24, 2014, 09:00:13 AM »
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Michael

Thanks looks like they definitely have a winner on their hands.

Paul

How can it fail? ...If one wants a comparable image sensor and only does DSLR use of his/hers camera, he has to pay much more... If he wants to be "deferent" from other DSLR users... its the cheapest thing around... There is no competition available (yet)... is there?  Lips sealed Hear, hear... Doug will be shooting weddings with an ...IQ250!  Grin
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #373 on: August 24, 2014, 11:06:47 PM »
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The main advantage of this camera over the D810 (I have a D800) is that with the 645Z I can make much larger prints - more pixels equals exponentially better enlargement ability. I regularly do prints 6 feet to 10 feet in size and need the MF resolution. This is not just my blind opinion but is from my 15 years of making art prints and pixel peeping every file and print. 

Elisabeth,

I find the 645Z to be a remarkable camera and it is great to read that you are pleased with the outcome.

Now, I am a bit doubtful about the exponentially better enlargement ability part of your statement. Considering that the pixel quality/sharpness of the 645Z and D810 are similar (which is reasonable), what you get is the ability to move up from a 20x24 inch print to a 23x28 inch print, everything else being equal. It is for sure a relevant difference if you don't stitch, but I don't see this as exponentially better.

Now, one of the concern I have with the 645Z is the quality of the lenses compared to the best 35mm offerings, today and in the future. I am wondering whether this theoretical advantage resulting from higher pixel counter will really show in terms of actual detail once lens quality is factored in. The Pentax 90mm seems to be the only truly outstanding lens in the Pentax line up as we speak compared to a wide variety of choices in Nikon mount. Since Sigma and Zeiss will not be developing lenses for this size of sensors so I don't see the gap reducing, on the contrary.

Cheers,
Bernard
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #374 on: August 25, 2014, 12:45:29 AM »
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Yes, indeed,

But the story was the same with the P645D. I don't think it was a failure, but it didn't afffect Phase and Hassy sales either.

Best regards
Erik


How can it fail? ...If one wants a comparable image sensor and only does DSLR use of his/hers camera, he has to pay much more... If he wants to be "deferent" from other DSLR users... its the cheapest thing around... There is no competition available (yet)... is there?  Lips sealed Hear, hear... Doug will be shooting weddings with an ...IQ250!  Grin
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jerome_m
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« Reply #375 on: August 25, 2014, 02:00:11 AM »
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Now, one of the concern I have with the 645Z is the quality of the lenses compared to the best 35mm offerings, today and in the future. I am wondering whether this theoretical advantage resulting from higher pixel counter will really show in terms of actual detail once lens quality is factored in. The Pentax 90mm seems to be the only truly outstanding lens in the Pentax line up as we speak compared to a wide variety of choices in Nikon mount. Since Sigma and Zeiss will not be developing lenses for this size of sensors so I don't see the gap reducing, on the contrary.

The opposite may actually be true. My experience with MF format lenses, although not directly from Pentax, is that they are much, much better than what is generally available in 24x36.

The reason is actually quite simple: MF lenses are generally bigger than their 24x36 counterparts (even when counting the difference in coverage) and slower. The optical engineer does not have to optimise for size or aperture.
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torger
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« Reply #376 on: August 25, 2014, 02:09:52 AM »
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But the story was the same with the P645D. I don't think it was a failure, but it didn't afffect Phase and Hassy sales either.

Yes I could be the same this time around too, but I think it's a bit different now as the camera landscape look different. The 645D was released 2010, two years before the D800. Now with very capable 135 cameras like the D800/D810 and A7r people has got used to that high resolution can be had cheap and more starting to question the pricing of MF. Then three cameras come out with the exact same Sony sensor which is the same type of technology as in D800/A7r. Similar results can be had from all, yet pricing is very different. Hasselblad has also launched a luxury consumer line of rebranded Sony products and Leica has moved further into being just a luxury brand.

I think customers today are much more aware of that if you get Hassy, Leica or Phase you pay a lot just for their business model rather than getting actual product value. This means that the 645Z may make a larger impact than 645D did. We'll see.
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torger
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« Reply #377 on: August 25, 2014, 02:31:10 AM »
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The opposite may actually be true. My experience with MF format lenses, although not directly from Pentax, is that they are much, much better than what is generally available in 24x36.

The reason is actually quite simple: MF lenses are generally bigger than their 24x36 counterparts (even when counting the difference in coverage) and slower. The optical engineer does not have to optimise for size or aperture.

135 systems have not previously been optimized for "MF applications", ie high resolution photography in good light. It has not really been meaningful to do so as high resolution sensors has not existed. It's different now, and the Zeiss Otus and Sigma Art lens lines are the first(?) products that aim for high resolving power. Still it's easier to resolve more with a larger format, but maybe modern optics manufacturing will make the size factor less meaningful.

It's quite early though, and it's still true that for 135 systems most lenses are not designed for very high resolving power. Personally I don't find Zeiss Otus to be a real alternative, as for this type of camera I want autofocus.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #378 on: August 25, 2014, 02:35:38 AM »
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Hi,

Lloyd has been looking into this, comparing the Pentax 24 mm with the Zeiss 21 on A7r, and also Pentax 90 mm with Otus, i think. I am not sure about the outcome, but I felt he preferred the smaller formats.

The other side of the equation is that the weakness of 135 lenses you mention seems to be mostly in the corners and corners are mostly not the most important part of the image. Also, new lenses are coming from Sigma and Zeiss offering much improved performance across the field.

The third part is that there is a need of stopping for aperture on MFD, if I can shoot with DSLR at 5.6 and need to stop down an MFD to f/11, diffraction will affect the MFD while the DSLR is still in the optimal region.

I would also say, that all these may be pixel peeping differences, quite visible at actual pixels on screen, but this not the way pictures are normally presented. Pictures are either shown on screen. Which has two megapixels, or in prints.

Either way, low frequency detail will dominate over microcontrast.

Best regards
Erik


The opposite may actually be true. My experience with MF format lenses, although not directly from Pentax, is that they are much, much better than what is generally available in 24x36.

The reason is actually quite simple: MF lenses are generally bigger than their 24x36 counterparts (even when counting the difference in coverage) and slower. The optical engineer does not have to optimise for size or aperture.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #379 on: August 25, 2014, 02:59:27 AM »
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Lloyd has been looking into this, comparing the Pentax 24 mm with the Zeiss 21 on A7r, and also Pentax 90 mm with Otus, i think. I am not sure about the outcome, but I felt he preferred the smaller formats.

The details are interesting and I recommend anyone interested in this comparison to subscribe to DAP at diglloyd.com, but in short he finds that the 90mm Pentax is the only lens thanks to which the 645Z isn't inferior to a D810 + a good 35 mm equivalent lens. Now he didn't test multiple samples,... so this must be taken with a grain of salt as all reviews are.

Cheers,
Bernard
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