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Author Topic: New Leica T-Type 701  (Read 20407 times)
Brian Hirschfeld
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« on: April 04, 2014, 11:43:52 AM »
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http://photorumors.com/2014/04/04/this-is-the-upcoming-leica-t-type-701-camera/

If this is true then this will be the most depressing moment in the history of Leica IMHO, this camera doesn't seem to be even remotely related to Leica design aesthetic or function aside from the fact that it will accept Leica M mount lenses with an adapter....

....A non-full frame (APS-C) camera with an EVF..... ~ and we know it won't be the latest and greatest EVF...

....a body made in Germany....lenses made in Asia...~I'm hoping that they have that backwards...

relatively concerning seeing the latest products coming out of Leica....
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Manoli
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2014, 11:52:12 AM »
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www.the.me/more-details-on-the-compact-system-camera-leica-t-codenamed-taifun/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+themephoto+%28theme%29
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BJL
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« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2014, 11:52:18 AM »
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http://photorumors.com/2014/04/04/this-is-the-upcoming-leica-t-type-701-camera/

If this is true then this will be the most depressing moment in the history of Leica IMHO ...
....A non-full frame (APS-C) camera with an EVF
Why is either a 24x16mm format or an EVF so depressing, so long as there are lenses designed for its format and Leica also keeps making true rangefinders in 36x24mm format, and SLRs in 45x30mm format?  I do not see a problem in Leica offering a range of format sizes, price levels, and viewfinder technologies.
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Manoli
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« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2014, 12:01:04 PM »
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Why is either a 24x16mm format or an EVF so depressing, so long as there are lenses designed for its format and Leica also keeps making true rangefinders in 36x24mm format, and SLRs in 45x30mm format?  I do not see a problem in Leica offering a range of format sizes, price levels, and viewfinder technologies.

You are absolutely correct. I would have thought this is the first step in Leica's 'end game'. A new Leica S, in all probability by the end of the year, The Leica M (240) evolves, The M-E is distanced from the 240 by turning it into a pure EVF - no more rangefinder - and a direct competitor to the A7 series etc etc. This is but a first step into the APS-C domain. Full frame mirrorless is here to stay and who better than Leica to finally cater to the mass of M lenses currently being used on a variety of EVIL's ?

The priority is not going to be autofocus but the implementation of combined live view and focus peaking.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 12:05:34 PM by Manoli » Logged
JV
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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2014, 07:32:42 PM »
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http://photorumors.com/2014/04/04/this-is-the-upcoming-leica-t-type-701-camera/
If this is true then this will be the most depressing moment in the history of Leica IMHO

It feels like somebody is trying to start a Lunar here…

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this.  Excellent strategy from Leica!
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Telecaster
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« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2014, 12:09:54 AM »
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The priority is not going to be autofocus but the implementation of combined live view and focus peaking.

Taking lotsa pics over the past few days with my "new" (to me) Leica M8.2, it's made clear to me again how fast rangefinder focusing is relative to magnified EVF focusing. I can snap an image into focus with a good RF faster than it takes to think about doing it. Like riding a bike. IMO cameras with EVFs would benefit from a speedier manual focusing option, maybe something like Fuji's split-image scheme.

-Dave-
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scooby70
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« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2014, 09:44:42 AM »
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I don't like this obsession with Made In Germany.

A quality prodict can be made anywhere and Made In Germany is in itself no guarantee of anything let alone quality. So, please lets drop the automatic negativity to anything made in Asia or anywhere else not Germany.

Lets instead judge a product for what it is and not because of the badge or where it's made.
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Telecaster
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2014, 03:27:55 PM »
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Leica M bodies are assembled in Portugal. (At least I think they still are.) At one time Leitz had a facility in Canada where they made lenses. Some of my favorites are Canadian. My German-made Y/C Zeiss SLR lenses are no better or worse than their Japanese-made counterparts. Pentax lenses from the 1970s & '80s are among the best-built, smoothest operating I own...all made in Japan. Last year I bought a Korean-made Guild M75 Aristocrat electric guitar. High quality materials, fantastic workmanship, great playability & sound. Fender, Gibson and even Guild would've killed for this kind of quality back in the 1970s guitar nadir. These days, with automated processes, place of manufacture has little relevance. Design and materials used are what matter.

-Dave-
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Manoli
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2014, 03:11:08 AM »
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monocoque aluminium ...





http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/new-pictures-ot-the-leica-t-has-aluminum-unibody-just-like-your-macbook-pro
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2014, 05:58:04 PM »
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I don't like this obsession with Made In Germany.

Zeiss decided to have the Zeiss Otus manufactured by Cosina in Japan for a reason... Wink

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
Robert Falconer
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2014, 07:46:43 PM »
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I've discussed this elsewhere before, but Leica is a company that makes superlative mechanics and optics. Unfortunately, only one of those is truly crucial to camera design and manufacturing anymore, and it ain't the former.

Prior to going digital, Leica's cameras were already behind the 8-ball when it came to electronics. It's why they turned to Minolta in the 1970s (and in recent years to Panasonic).

As soon as the camera became both mechanism AND medium (aka digital cameras), this problem was magnified over night.

The company's solution (I think wisely) was to position itself as an ultra high end purveyor of luxury photographic instruments. They turned a disadvantage — building cameras using expensive antediluvian  technology — into a strength by marketing their products as exclusive, luxury goods manufactured with "old world craftsmanship".

Leica became the Rolex of cameras; a fashion statement.

If I sound flippant or cynical, I don't mean to be; IMO it was a smart move on their part. The photographic world can certainly support one uber luxury camera brand … and Leica ought to be it.

I really can't comment on Leica's forthcoming interchangeable mirrorless camera. My biggest fear is that it will continue the tradition of using electronics that are a few years behind current, state-of-the-art Japanese designs — thus overpriced and under spec'd — but we won't know for sure until it's announced.
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JV
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2014, 08:03:49 PM »
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I've discussed this elsewhere before, but Leica is a company that makes superlative mechanics and optics. Unfortunately, only one of those is truly crucial to camera design and manufacturing anymore, and it ain't the former.

Prior to going digital, Leica's cameras were already behind the 8-ball when it came to electronics. It's why they turned to Minolta in the 1970s (and in recent years to Panasonic).

As soon as the camera became both mechanism AND medium (aka digital cameras), this problem was magnified over night.

The company's solution (I think wisely) was to position itself as an ultra high end purveyor of luxury photographic instruments. They turned a disadvantage — building cameras using expensive antediluvian  technology — into a strength by marketing their products as exclusive, luxury goods manufactured with "old world craftsmanship".

Leica became the Rolex of cameras; a fashion statement.

If I sound flippant or cynical, I don't mean to be; IMO it was a smart move on their part. The photographic world can certainly support one uber luxury camera brand … and Leica ought to be it.

I really can't comment on Leica's forthcoming interchangeable mirrorless camera. My biggest fear is that it will continue the tradition of using electronics that are a few years behind current, state-of-the-art Japanese designs — thus overpriced and under spec'd — but we won't know for sure until it's announced.

IMO it is a bit unfair to only see Leica as a fashion statement.

I am certainly not going to defend Leica as the best camera in the world.  It is not.  In a lot of ways it is by no means a modern camera.

But it is a lot of fun and it has the potential to produce unique images!! And for a lot of people it represents photographic pleasure in its purest and simplest form.  What is not to like about that?

PS. I assume you are talking about the Leica M mainly, there is obviously also the Leica S.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 08:06:45 PM by JV » Logged
Robert Falconer
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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2014, 08:22:37 PM »
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I was speaking of the M Series, yes.

I'm not seeing Leica strictly as a fashion statement. But there's no denying that the company itself sees itself, at least in part, this way. Just look at the special edition Ms that have been created in conjunction with fashion manufacturers. It speaks volumes about where the company is positioning itself.

Not denying that shooting with a Leica is a fun or pleasurable experience. For many, it is a great (if limited) instrument to capture images. And the lenses are uniformly excellent (unlike the Japanese manufactures who cater to everyone from pros, to prosumers, to casual snap-shooters … with optics that reflect that).

I guess what I'm saying is that while Leica is relevant as a maker of luxury instruments, it hasn't been particularly relevant as a camera manufacturer, per se, since about 1970. I would like to see them change this. But it will require designing and building a cutting edge camera that caters to photographers' needs first and foremost, and rich collectors second. The M3 was cutting edge for its day. Leica haven't topped that relative level of innovation since.
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Telecaster
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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2014, 11:15:09 PM »
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I'm not seeing Leica strictly as a fashion statement. But there's no denying that the company itself sees itself, at least in part, this way. Just look at the special edition Ms that have been created in conjunction with fashion manufacturers. It speaks volumes about where the company is positioning itself.

I think they're doing this simply because it allows them to survive. Leica is a small company. They don't have the resources to go toe-to-toe with the big players. So they've found a niche they can fill. I hope whatever it is they're doing with this new camera system finds a sustainable niche too, and maybe even allows them to broaden their appeal a bit.

-Dave-
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Robert Falconer
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« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2014, 12:40:42 AM »
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I'm not criticizing their strategy so much as hoping that they'll create a quality product that is a bit more on the cutting edge ... and yet still attainable to serious photographers, as opposed to just the rich.

They are a smallish company, but they seem to have the resources to open dedicated stores around the world, much like high-end jewelers and clothiers, e.g. Tiffany & Co., Gucci, Polo, Yves Saint Laurent, etc.
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JV
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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2014, 10:07:05 AM »
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I guess what I'm saying is that while Leica is relevant as a maker of luxury instruments, it hasn't been particularly relevant as a camera manufacturer, per se, since about 1970.

I tend to disagree here.  The Leica M9 was IMO very relevant as the first FF digital camera in such a small package. 

But it will require designing and building a cutting edge camera that caters to photographers' needs first and foremost, and rich collectors second.

This is precisely the intention of the Leica S… Leica is using the S to re-connect with professional photographers.  The Leica M is the milk cow that is making that possible.

I'm not criticizing their strategy so much as hoping that they'll create a quality product that is a bit more on the cutting edge ...

What is cutting edge?  The latest and greatest specs…? I am sorry but I might not be that interested.

The latest generation of cameras is already better than most photographers will ever be and slightly more DR or better focus tracking is not going to keep me awake at night…
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MrSmith
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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2014, 01:39:02 PM »
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I walk past 2 leica shops several times a week, I have never seen a customer inside or going in/out, maybe they sell a lot of microscopes/industrial optical products to keep these loss-leader outlets going?
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Telecaster
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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2014, 02:03:43 PM »
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I walk past 2 leica shops several times a week, I have never seen a customer inside or going in/out, maybe they sell a lot of microscopes/industrial optical products to keep these loss-leader outlets going?

Leica Microsystems makes those products but the current Leica Camera company doesn't. Two different firms. Leica Camera makes cameras, camera lenses, binoculars & spotting scopes. That's it. Dunno if the stores are profitable or not but I'd guess they are.

-Dave-
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JV
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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2014, 04:15:13 PM »
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I walk past 2 leica shops several times a week, I have never seen a customer inside or going in/out, maybe they sell a lot of microscopes/industrial optical products to keep these loss-leader outlets going?

I visited the Leica store in NYC last year.  It is very busy but then again a lot of it is tourists.

As discussed in the store I sent them an email afterwards with gear that I wanted to trade in to partially fund a Leica S.  They do sell used gear in the store as well.

I never got a reply… I could understand that they were not interested but at least have the decency to reply to a potential customer!

A few months later I sent a reminder email.  Also no reply…

One thing is sure.  If I ever do decide to buy the Leica S my first stop won't be the Leica store in NYC...

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Robert Falconer
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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2014, 06:09:24 PM »
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I'm not suggesting that Leica move to autofocus for the M, because it would be an enormous engineering hurdle and stray too far from the company's entrenched reputation for building traditional rangefinders.

Thus, the Leica is a precision tool for a very specific type of shooting. However, it's not a highly versatile professional tool for a wide variety of shooting situations.

That said, there are some things that could be improved upon, such as higher ISO performance. For example, I'm not particularly impressed with the CMOSIS sensor tech used in the 240, and think Leica would be better served using current generation Sony sensors.

There are a few items of control operation that could stand improvement as well, but I'm not going to get bogged down listing them all here.
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