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Author Topic: Lightroom Mobile Released  (Read 9197 times)
fhammond
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« Reply #100 on: April 26, 2014, 08:45:51 AM »
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"In what way is LrM better, faster or cheaper than good old LR?"

I'm coming into this conversation late (I was looking for something else and came across this thread) but I can give my two cents worth. However, before I do, I should say that I'm an Adobe employee, albeit one not connected to the Lightroom team (other than pestering them to add features I want!).

For me, LRm is exactly the tool I wanted when I first saw the iPad. That's not to say I think it's perfect but, rather, it already fills the need I have. That need is to deal with the ~90% of my photos that I don't want to keep. LRm makes it easy for me to edit a shoot without being in front of a "real" computer. I sync a "To be edited" collection to the cloud so I'm able to use my iPad *or* my desktop computer to go through the collection. I've always used flags and not stars, so the current lack of star rating isn't an issue. I would like to be able to hide rejected photos from LRm and I know that's a common feature request.

Editing a shoot still takes time but now some of that time can be in situations where I couldn't edit before. For example, I catch the train into our office in San Francisco and I almost never get a seat. Standing with an iPad and editing a shoot works very well; not something I could have done with a laptop.

Lastly, I know that everyone in the Lightroom team definitely considers LRm a 1.0 product and that there are workflows that can be improved. Feedback is very welcome and can be provided here:
http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family

Regards,
Fergus
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digitaldog
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« Reply #101 on: April 26, 2014, 09:35:59 AM »
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For me, LRm is exactly the tool I wanted when I first saw the iPad. That's not to say I think it's perfect but, rather, it already fills the need I have. That need is to deal with the ~90% of my photos that I don't want to keep.
My beef isn't with what the produce can do, it's how it does it and the time it takes!

I'm out of town shooting and I come back to my hotel with a mere 100 raws from a 5DMII. I want to edit the images as you describe:

1. I save the 100 raws from card to laptop.
2. I import them into Lightroom.
At this point I can start working on the images. With LrM I have to additionally:

3. Build Smart Previews, a task I'd not have to do above. That takes time.
4-5. I have to sync them to the iPad, something I'd not do above. That takes time. Then sync them back to the laptop. That takes time.
6. I have to work on a slow device that's got a smaller display. And I have to avoid using anything in Quick Develop because the device isn't color managed.

At this point between workflow A and workflow B, I've finished what I needed to do in A well before I got the images into the iPad for B. Then I have to sync back.

Further I have to use another cloud service (Adobe's) I don't want to use in both directions.
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Editing a shoot still takes time but now some of that time can be in situations where I couldn't edit before
Why couldn't you do the editing on the machine that you sent the initial raws to in the first place? (ideally in this kind of on-the go scenario, a laptop).

Maybe at Adobe or wherever you work with LrM, you have a super fast T1 line. Ever try all this syncing using the WiFi at a La Quinta hotel? Not my idea of a fun workflow.
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Lastly, I know that everyone in the Lightroom team definitely considers LRm a 1.0 product and that there are workflows that can be improved.
Can you speed up WiFi for the syncing?
Can you allow me to use DropBox which is the cloud service I already use?
Lastly, I'm someone that started with Photoshop 1.0.7 and LR 1 (actually pre-release). Both products where vastly more useful and well thought out in their 1.0 incarnations than LrM 1.0 by a long shot.
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Andrew Rodney
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jeremyrh
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« Reply #102 on: April 26, 2014, 11:43:02 AM »
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Why couldn't you do the editing on the machine that you sent the initial raws to in the first place? (ideally in this kind of on-the go scenario, a laptop).

Because he hasn't got it with him. How many friggin' times?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #103 on: April 26, 2014, 01:56:30 PM »
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Because he hasn't got it with him. How many friggin' times?
And if my Aunt had ball's she'd be my Uncle.
Nice job ignoring the real crux of the problems with LrM, getting the images to the iPad and back.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #104 on: April 26, 2014, 02:44:08 PM »
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And if my Aunt had ball's she'd be my Uncle.

Hum, I thought your aunt did have balls :~)

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Nice job ignoring the real crux of the problems with LrM, getting the images to the iPad and back.

This is the issue I have with LrM...you CAN'T use it unless you first import images to a laptop or desktop computer and then sync to LrM. So, that completely eliminates the ability to take your iPad and leave your laptop at home when you shoot in the field. That pretty much takes the "mobile" out of LrM for me.

But, hey, it's a 1.0 app. Lightroom had a tone of critics when LR 1.0 first shipped. Over the versions, features and functionality was added to the point now that LR is at 5.4, it has a ton of stuff people wanted when LR 1.0 shipped.

LrM will be useful for some folks in some circumstances. It's not useful for me...yet. But, it's no skin off my nose for the moment. I'll still use LR on a laptop in the field and LR to maintain my full catalog on my desktop. Adding LrM to the CC subscription doesn't take away any usefulness of LR on computers, it just adds some new usefulness to some, on an iPad. We'll see how much the LR team can add new things to LrM in upcoming releases.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #105 on: April 26, 2014, 03:15:27 PM »
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Hum, I thought your aunt did have balls :~)
Not going to ask how you knew that!  Roll Eyes
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #106 on: April 26, 2014, 04:13:25 PM »
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Not going to ask how you knew that!  Roll Eyes

A little birdie told me...

:~)
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #107 on: April 26, 2014, 04:54:20 PM »
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This is the issue I have with LrM...you CAN'T use it unless you first import images to a laptop or desktop computer ...

Hi Jeff,

I'm puzzled, how did you get the images off of your memory card, and into your backup system? No formal desktop environment to view the images on, later?

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... and then sync to LrM.

So that's one step to unleach some additional convenience. Is it that hard that it's perceived as one hurdle to many?

Just asking, because as an Android tablet user (and a registered license holder of the LR5.4 perpetual license) I cannot test it myself.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 05:00:34 PM by BartvanderWolf » Logged
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« Reply #108 on: April 26, 2014, 08:27:33 PM »
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I'm puzzled, how did you get the images off of your memory card, and into your backup system? No formal desktop environment to view the images on, later?

Card reader, imported to Lightroom launched on the laptop. I do light image edits and ranking in the field, then when returning from the field, I export the field image catalog and import to the desktop using import from catalog. The images are copied from the external FW drive to my main array on the desktop.

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So that's one step to unleach some additional convenience. Is it that hard that it's perceived as one hurdle to many?

Just asking, because as an Android tablet user (and a registered license holder of the LR5.4 perpetual license) I cannot test it myself.

Well, why would I spend the extra time creating a collection (the only thing you can sync to LrM), sync to the cloud (which ain't fast) and then use an iPad to edit, when I've already got my images in LR on the laptop...where I have access to the entire LR feature set (instead of a sub set)?

In order to get the images onto the iPad from Lightroom, they must first be imported into Lightroom. Why not just start editing on the laptop?

That's the disconnect for me...also note that editing the images on the iPad ain't fast...(slower than editing on a laptop). And while I never make final color/tone adjustments on the laptop display, at least it's working in a color managed environment with an accurate display profile.
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jeremyrh
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« Reply #109 on: April 27, 2014, 02:16:35 AM »
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Why not just start editing on the laptop?

Because (drumroll) you haven't got it with you. It's on your desk and you're in a cafe/on a bus/ in bed/ whatever. Simples.
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BartvanderWolf
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« Reply #110 on: April 27, 2014, 03:51:12 AM »
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Well, why would I spend the extra time creating a collection (the only thing you can sync to LrM), ...

Ah, I see. Not the most monumental task, but yet another one.

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... sync to the cloud (which ain't fast) ...

Which should happen in the background, unattended, maybe even automatic via a hot folder.

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... and then use an iPad to edit, when I've already got my images in LR on the laptop...where I have access to the entire LR feature set (instead of a sub set)?

Obviously, when you lug your laptop along all the time, and don't run out of battery power.

This may also be different between geographies, where in the USA people perhaps tend to do almost everything by car (thus having access to storage room and on-board power). Other geographies travel in different ways, lightweight, by bicycle, walk, taxi/bus/tram/metro.

Also, with a growing dependency on electricity and increasing prices, a low power consumption device (multiplied a few million times) like a tablet may grow in popularity. I run my Android tablet (320 PPI) for a couple of days on one charge, including watching some streamed TV/news/documentaries or listen to Audio (streamed from my wireless accesspoint which can also serve as a powerbank for my Phone or Tablet), and performance improves with each generation.

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In order to get the images onto the iPad from Lightroom, they must first be imported into Lightroom. Why not just start editing on the laptop?

Do you have all your images on the laptop? Maybe you want to access some earlier work for discussion with someone you are visiting? Besides, having your laptop (with charger and external drive) with you all the time, may be your current MO, but it may change ...

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That's the disconnect for me...also note that editing the images on the iPad ain't fast...(slower than editing on a laptop). And while I never make final color/tone adjustments on the laptop display, at least it's working in a color managed environment with an accurate display profile.

Makes sense for your workflow. Others may have a different workflow/travel schedule.

Cheers,
Bart
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digitaldog
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« Reply #111 on: April 27, 2014, 10:08:46 AM »
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Why not just start editing on the laptop?
Because (drumroll) you haven't got it with you. It's on your desk and you're in a cafe/on a bus/ in bed/ whatever. Simples.
Ah, so you attempt to put all your images on the ipad in that possible use case? Because for a lot of us, impossible.
Ah, so you know you're going to be going to the cafe/on a bus/in bed/whatever and you know you'll forget to take the proper tool, so you'll go though this slow process to work on a slow tool rather than just plan ahead and bring the laptop? You put those images on the iPad just in case you forget to take the laptop.
And yet you remembered to put the images in the iPad and take it with you but not the proper tool. I can see this working well next time you go on a shoot for a client and instead of pulling out say a DSLR, you pull out the iPhone: I forget to bring the real camera but here's a backup solution. That will fly.
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Andrew Rodney
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fhammond
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« Reply #112 on: April 27, 2014, 11:21:32 AM »
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"I'm out of town shooting and I come back to my hotel with a mere 100 raws from a 5DMII. I want to edit the images as you describe"

Hey Andrew,

In the situation you describe, I'd stick with my laptop. However, as an amateur, I'm rarely on any type of a deadline. If I'm away for multiple days, I'll take a bunch of memory cards, switch them daily (more to avoid putting all my eggs in one basket than for capacity reasons), perhaps view them on an iPad mini but do all my editing when I get back home.

In this situation, I don't care about the time it takes to build Smart Previews and upload those to the cloud. Relative to the time it takes me to edit the new photos, this extra time is trivial. It also doesn't slow down any initial editing I'm doing on the computer: Smart Previews are being built and uploaded to the cloud in the background. Syncing back to the computer from the iPad is a non-issue, as we're syncing back a tiny amount of data.

I've recently moved my Lightroom collection off my laptop and onto a desktop, so the LRm workflow makes more sense to me. Other comments on your last post (which wasn't directly addressed to me but were relevant):

"Ah, so you attempt to put all your images on the ipad in that possible use case?"

No, not all imaged. I just sync my un-edited collection to the cloud. Sadly, right now it's about 6700 photos as a result of coming back from a trip.

"Ah, so you know you're going to be going to the cafe/on a bus/in bed/whatever and you know you'll forget to take the proper tool, so you'll go though this slow process to work on a slow tool rather than just plan ahead and bring the laptop? "

It's not about forgetting; it's about choice. I often don't want to bring my laptop with me or I'm in a place where it's not usable (e.g., standing on a train). However, I almost always have my iPad with me. Now, any time I've got a few spare minutes, I can use the time to edit my un-edited collection. The time to get the collection into the cloud isn't an issue; my desktop just pushes them there, almost entirely without my intervention. 

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else that LRm is a perfect. In fact, I'm not even trying to change your opinion that it's a toy. I'm just describing why for me, it's definitely not a toy and has made me more productive.

Regards,
Fergus
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digitaldog
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« Reply #113 on: April 27, 2014, 11:29:51 AM »
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Fergus, you're right, it's about choice and for many, we'll forgo LrM due to the issues I've outlined. If it works for you, great. And this has nothing per se to do with a deadline, I don't like wasting my time (life is short) or jumping through more hoops then I feel is necessary. IF and when LrM can produce the flexibility and speed and options I have with say the JPEG's my iPhone camera produces and syncs (with my choice of cloud services), I might bite.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #114 on: April 27, 2014, 02:04:13 PM »
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Why not just start editing on the laptop?

Because (drumroll) you haven't got it with you. It's on your desk and you're in a cafe/on a bus/ in bed/ whatever. Simples.

Well, if you don't have your laptop with you, how are ya gonna get your raw files into LrM? Because you can load images you capture with your iPad in it's camera roll, but you can't add raw images into LrM via your iPad.

So, if you left your laptop at home, you're out of luck editing stuff in the field in LrM.

Do you get it now? You CAN'T import your raw images into LrM without first importing them to the full LR app and syncing them.
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #115 on: April 27, 2014, 02:18:39 PM »
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I've been surprised to learn that a few people are shooting raw+jpeg, bring the jpeg into LrM, then use my Syncomatic plugin to transfer adjustments between the corresponding jpeg and raw files in LrD. It wasn't my suggestion, but in principle it should work.
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jeremyrh
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« Reply #116 on: April 27, 2014, 04:03:37 PM »
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Well, if you don't have your laptop with you, how are ya gonna get your raw files into LrM? Because you can load images you capture with your iPad in it's camera roll, but you can't add raw images into LrM via your iPad.

So, if you left your laptop at home, you're out of luck editing stuff in the field in LrM.

Do you get it now? You CAN'T import your raw images into LrM without first importing them to the full LR app and syncing them.

Yeeeessss.  And?  I import my images, I sync them. ... and now I can play with them on my iPad while I'm waiting for my coffee. Do you get it now?
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« Reply #117 on: April 27, 2014, 04:08:38 PM »
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I import my images, I sync them. ... and now I can play with them on my iPad while I'm waiting for my coffee. Do you get it now?

Yep,but to get them to LrM requires a real computer...which if you leave it home while shooting in the field means you won't be working on newly shot images in LrM. You can't use LrM in the field without first importing them to the computer...and that kinda defeats the purpose of "mobile" in LrM...LrM is really only Lightroom Kinda Mobile™.

But hey, if you have CC, it's free :~)
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jeremyrh
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« Reply #118 on: April 28, 2014, 01:00:44 AM »
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Yep,but to get them to LrM requires a real computer...which if you leave it home while shooting in the field means you won't be working on newly shot images in LrM. You can't use LrM in the field without first importing them to the computer...and that kinda defeats the purpose of "mobile" in LrM...LrM is really only Lightroom Kinda Mobile™.

But hey, if you have CC, it's free :~)
Correct - you have to use a computer at some stage of the proceedings, but once that's done, you're good to go.
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« Reply #119 on: April 28, 2014, 05:38:06 AM »
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Which was the point I was trying to make...LrM isn't very mobile unless you have a real computer to enable imports in the first place.
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