Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Lightroom Mobile Released  (Read 9808 times)
john beardsworth
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2832



WWW
« Reply #80 on: April 18, 2014, 02:56:40 AM »
ReplyReply

This discussions seems to have coalesced around two camps: whether or not tablets are useful for post-processing.

I think you've incorrectly characterised the two camps - the line is whether it's worth doing any post-processing if you can't do nearly everything you'd do on a proper computer. As you go on to imply, how realistic is it to expect the latter?

Is there anyone else out there who feels that the bigger issue is the way Adobe has done this: forcing LR standalone users to pay $99/year if they wish to use LRm.

Yes, although LrM is a relatively minor symptom of the overall problem of forcing people to switch to the rental model. Rather than a crude effort to force standalone users to subscribe, it's more a case of tipping the balance between subscribing and continuing to buy a perpetual licence.

John
Logged

digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9191



WWW
« Reply #81 on: April 18, 2014, 09:45:07 AM »
ReplyReply

I think you've incorrectly characterised the two camps - the line is whether it's worth doing any post-processing if you can't do nearly everything you'd do on a proper computer.

For me, I'd edit that to say: the line is whether it's worth doing any post-processing despite the severe time hit to send the work to an inferior product to do the work, then back, not that you can't do nearly everything you'd do on a proper computer. I crop and do minor adjustments of iPhone JPEG's from time to time because it's just as fast (often faster) than doing so on the proper computer. But then I probably have only a few hundred if that number of JPEGs on the phone in the first place. 100 raws>remove from card to get onto computer>build smart previews>sync to iPad>Work then transfer back? Huge PITA and so slow, plus forced to use Adobe's cloud when I have a cloud solution setup in the first place.
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
john beardsworth
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2832



WWW
« Reply #82 on: April 18, 2014, 10:04:27 AM »
ReplyReply

It's obviously not meant for when time is tight, so judging it by that criterion is spurious.
Logged

digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9191



WWW
« Reply #83 on: April 18, 2014, 10:12:16 AM »
ReplyReply

It's obviously not meant for when time is tight, so judging it by that criterion is spurious.
Wasting time is far from spurious. Time is money, at least on this end. Life is short. You can spend as much of your time using the product (or defending it). After all it's your time.

Ever hear this: Better, faster, cheaper. You can have two but not all three.

LrM is not better thanks to the device it makes us use. It's certainly not faster and it's certainly not cheaper. So in a nutshell, I find it a failure. I have better things to do with my time. You? That's your call. If that's spurious, we both need to spend time looking at the definition as you've used it in the above sentence.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 10:13:59 AM by digitaldog » Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
john beardsworth
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2832



WWW
« Reply #84 on: April 18, 2014, 10:22:33 AM »
ReplyReply

You're just unreasonably negative about it. Really no point trying to pretend otherwise, is there?
Logged

digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9191



WWW
« Reply #85 on: April 18, 2014, 10:34:01 AM »
ReplyReply

You're just unreasonably negative about it. Really no point trying to pretend otherwise, is there?
You call it unreasonably negative, I call it accurate. But lets put the question into your court. In what way is LrM better, faster or cheaper than good old LR? What problem does it fix that existed before it's release? I'm negative because I think it's a huge failure to provide anything but eye candy and aimed at the stat's showing the huge number of tablets are out there. Phones will be next of course, not because working with big raws there is neither a better, faster or cheaper place to do so but because of the population of those devices. LrM is basically a solution in search of a problem. And a way to hook users into the cloud and subscription many don't need nor want. If those facts are unreasonably negative, I stand by them. If you wish to dismiss them as facts, by all means just answer the above question about what LrM provides that is better, faster or cheaper than good old LR.

You're just unreasonably positive about it. Really no point trying to pretend otherwise, is there?
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
john beardsworth
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2832



WWW
« Reply #86 on: April 18, 2014, 11:15:12 AM »
ReplyReply

Not unreasonably positive at all, just opening my eyes and seeing ways it can be useful, while you're just making false comparisons. A tablet app doesn't need to be better, faster or cheaper than LR. In what way is an iPhone better, faster or cheaper than a proper camera? Well, maybe cheaper (if you exclude monthly costs?), but it's not just a cliche to say the best camera is the one you've got with you. Same with this - it's there when you're on the train or waiting for the sun.

What problem does it fix? Well, read above posts. For instance, is there any easier way to maintain a portfolio on your iPad? If you use Aperture, even the PhotoStream is messier, but look at the 3-4 portfolio apps most of us seem to acquire - Rube Goldberg would just love all the hard drive publish services and Dropbox routines you need to update a photo. Every time I do this it's a pain, and I'm technically minded-enough to have coded my own publish services or even write an iPad app. The other day I was showing someone how to sync to LrM and he must have asked 3 or 4 times about exporting JPEGs - no, you just click the button next to collections.

So there you are, the ball's sent back. Not that you'll accept that! After 5 versions of LR and double that of Bridge, I certainly don't allow Adobe the 1.0 excuse and think they made a bad mistake in not offering star ratings, at least. But it doesn't need to be better, faster or cheaper than Lr to be useful.
Logged

digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9191



WWW
« Reply #87 on: April 18, 2014, 11:29:46 AM »
ReplyReply

Not unreasonably positive at all, just opening my eyes and seeing ways it can be useful, while you're just making false comparisons.
False how? Where is LrM better, faster and cheaper than what we had prior to LrM? Your eyes are open so please fill us (me) in.
Quote
A tablet app doesn't need to be better, faster or cheaper than LR.
The workflow has to be as good or better otherwise what's the point? Where is it better? Where does it save me more time? Where is it (an iPad or phone) a better tool to do the work LrM expects us to do?
Quote
For instance, is there any easier way to maintain a portfolio on your iPad?
Yes, using the tools Apple provided for free and based on finished images (or are portfolio images supposed to be works in progress?). Or just post the portfolio on a web page or gallery as we've done for years and view in Safari on the iPad.
Quote
So there you are, the ball's sent back.
I think not! You've failed to answer where LrM is better, faster or cheaper, more flexible, accessed on a better tool than what we had before LrM. If you want to use it, go for it. But for a lot of us, it's a huge waste of time and the efforts of the Adobe team as iPhoto still provides vastly faster browsing of images than LR proper and of course it's free. Faster, cheaper. Two out of three for iPhoto, zero out of three for LrM.
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
john beardsworth
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2832



WWW
« Reply #88 on: April 18, 2014, 11:41:09 AM »
ReplyReply

Convenience.... It doesn't need to be better, faster, cheaper.

As I said before, I should just leave the dog chewing on his bone.
Logged

digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9191



WWW
« Reply #89 on: April 18, 2014, 11:47:11 AM »
ReplyReply

Convenience.... It doesn't need to be better, faster, cheaper.
Right, you're saying it's convenient to copy all the images off the camera card onto a real machine, forced to build Smart Previews, then sync them to the iPad, then sync back again? What part of that workflow is convenient? I submit it isn't convenient just to get the stinkin images onto the iPad before you even access them! LrM is slower, more expensive and offers less convenience just getting the images onto the silly iPad in the first place. LrM=convenience where might I ask?
Quote
As I said before, I should just leave the dog chewing on his bone.
Based on your inability to explain how LrM is at all useful, that's a good idea. You're not making false comparisons, you're not making any.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 11:49:58 AM by digitaldog » Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
john beardsworth
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2832



WWW
« Reply #90 on: April 18, 2014, 01:23:03 PM »
ReplyReply

Oh, I am explaining - you're just not willing to think outside your view of what the app must be. Unfortunately for you, there is space for a review / portfolio workflow, and it can't be much more convenient than a single click that sends the pictures to your tablet.
Logged

digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9191



WWW
« Reply #91 on: April 18, 2014, 01:37:47 PM »
ReplyReply

Oh, I am explaining.
Where would that be?

I'm suggesting LrM isn't better or faster or cheaper and you don't seem to disagree or as yet haven't countered that. So then you said it's more convenient. OK, explain how when I outlined the steps necessary just to get the images off a card and onto an iPad, and your response is? I asked what problems LR had that LrM fixes, about all I see from you is something about portfolio’s. Seems if that's the case, one would just build a web gallery or export finished images and then upload to the iPad (where would LrM be necessary in that context?).

We can and should agree to disagree but based on feedback on the UtoU forum alone, it seems a lot of people are scratching their heads about just what LrM brings to the party. I've outlined a workflow I believe is correct and necessary just to get images off a camera card onto the Ipad, is that incorrect? If so, what's a faster way to get the images onto the iPad? In what way is the iPad a better tool to do work in LR? We know it's not color managed. We know it's kind of slow. And it appears we need a two way sync just to get from point A to point B and back again. But you suggest that's convenient so I'll ask again, in what way? If you're explaining, I'm missing it and do respect your opinion but haven't seen as yet where and why I'd use this workflow.

This is really easy: you've got say 100 raws from a shoot. Why would you save them to a desktop or laptop, then be forced to build Smart Previews, then wait to have them sync to the iPad? Because you have work to do poolside? You moved all the images onto the desktop, you had to. Why not just do the work then and there? Even if syncing to the iPad was instantanious which it's far from being, what convenient process then takes place on the iPad that could not be done several steps previous after you simply copied the raws to the destkop?

I can keep asking you questions to explain why anyone would follow this workflow and await some answers: what LrM advantages there are?, As speed, quality of editing hardware, cost, inability to avoid the CC cloud, creation of smart previews and now convenient workflow seems to not be part of this process (unless I'm missing something). Just what does LrM provide in any of the above data points that a good Laptop doesn't provide?
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
jferrari
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 248


« Reply #92 on: April 18, 2014, 04:06:32 PM »
ReplyReply

C'mon you guys. Everyone knows that LightRoom Mobile is just a stepping stone to get users prepared for the release of LightRoom IC (in camera) where you simply do your edits right in the camera while staring at the tiny touchscreen then dump the results into the cloud, laptop, desktop or other destinations via WiFi, Bluetooth or Aquatooth (if it's raining.) You'll also be able to call people on your DSLR...
Logged
digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9191



WWW
« Reply #93 on: April 18, 2014, 04:37:04 PM »
ReplyReply

Everyone knows that LightRoom Mobile is just a stepping stone to get users prepared for the release of LightRoom IC (in camera) where you simply do your edits right in the camera while staring at the tiny touchscreen then dump the results into the cloud, laptop, desktop or other destinations via WiFi, Bluetooth or Aquatooth (if it's raining.) You'll also be able to call people on your DSLR...
What's a DSLR and do we need one now?  Roll Eyes
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
jrsforums
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 746


« Reply #94 on: April 18, 2014, 10:10:45 PM »
ReplyReply

What's a DSLR and do we need one now?  Roll Eyes

It all fits into the mythical common standardized RAW.  :-)
Logged

John
john beardsworth
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2832



WWW
« Reply #95 on: April 19, 2014, 01:26:44 AM »
ReplyReply

I can keep asking you questions to explain why anyone would follow this workflow and await some answers: what LrM advantages there are?, As speed, quality of editing hardware, cost, inability to avoid the CC cloud, creation of smart previews and now convenient workflow seems to not be part of this process (unless I'm missing something). Just what does LrM provide in any of the above data points that a good Laptop doesn't provide?

And yet I do keep answering you, accepting I need to answer on your terms rather than mine.... So, I say what's more convenient than a single click, in those very words, and yet you still claim I've not told you how it's convenient. But I don't need to answer on your terms, do I? It's not as if they aren't loaded, is it? For instance, the CC cloud is a separate and far-bigger issue which we can either love or loathe, and why should one be dragged into debating the use of smart previews (convenience is the user not needing to think about what's happening behind the scenes).

I think the problem here is that you are trying to place LrM too firmly on the critical path. Well, sure, I am one who has always advocated LR in terms of efficiency and managing large numbers of picture, but I think you've also got to allow for other tasks that loop or meander away from that critical path - and LrM is one of those. It's not a key step in the workflow and it shouldn't be judged in those terms. It's for maintaining portfolios, very conveniently, and for doing quick and dirty adjustments when it's convenient. Lightroom for the pub.

John  
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 08:09:19 AM by john beardsworth » Logged

luxborealis
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1168



WWW
« Reply #96 on: April 19, 2014, 07:48:17 AM »
ReplyReply

I'm suggesting LrM isn't better or faster or cheaper
why anyone would follow this workflow:... what LrM advantages there are?... (unless I'm missing something). Just what does LrM provide in any of the above data points that a good Laptop doesn't provide?

You are absolutely correct in asking these questions, digital dog. You may like the answers John is providing, but yoiu are asking the right questions.

The way I see it, LrM is a "nice" addition at this point, but has some serious shortcomings; e.g. so far, I've not found a way to toggle shadow/highlight clipping for edits (which makes it useless for serious editing) and the blacks on the iPad Air are deep grey at best. LrM is a nice way to show photos, though - the best I've found, so far. But at $120/year it becomes an expensive display/portfolio app.

BUT... LrM is not finished. It's only 1.1. At some point, no doubt, we will be able to upload directly from the camera to the tablet into LrM and start tagging and editing like we do on a laptop. yes, it can be done on a laptop, more efficiently right now, but that's changing. There will be a 12" tablet in the next couple of years that will effectively replace a laptop for much of what we do now. My guess is Adobe is getting ready for the eventuality.

LrM is a "toy" right now, but it is the future.
Logged

Terry McDonald
Revealing the art inherent in nature
- visit luxBorealis.com.
Have a read of my PhotoBlog and subscribe!
john beardsworth
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2832



WWW
« Reply #97 on: April 19, 2014, 08:23:54 AM »
ReplyReply

Toy's the wrong word, but sure, it is for less-critical tasks. That doesn't make it without value though. Just this morning I had an unexpectedly-long wait for the car's tyres to be changed and used the time whittling down a collection of pictures I'd shortlisted for a book. Back home, those pick flags appeared in LR. That's convenient. Better, faster, cheaper - irrelevant, it was there when I wanted.

Also, Adobe aren't asking $120 a year for LrM - that's for LR+PS. LrM is a sweetener, whatever you view of subscription-limited software.
 
Logged

digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9191



WWW
« Reply #98 on: April 19, 2014, 09:40:24 AM »
ReplyReply

And yet I do keep answering you, accepting I need to answer on your terms rather than mine....
If provding no answer and no workflow justifications for the design and use of LrM are answers on your own terms, I'll stop asking you questions. I see I'm not the only one here who's awaiting such answers.
Quote
So, I say what's more convenient than a single click, in those very words, and yet you still claim I've not told you how it's convenient.
Ignoring the steps and time necessary to get to that one click represent IMHO a very poor answer.
Q: How Do You Get To Carnegie Hall? A: Easy, practice!
And now we'll dismiss the joke and the bit about the real work of practicing...
Quote
But I don't need to answer on your terms, do I?
You don't answer the question at all on any terms. The data just magically and quickly finds it's way onto the iPad, it's hardware and software inabilities and the lack of functionality of LrM versus just using a tool that's far better (a Laptop) isn't on your terms in the answer because if you did address these flaws, you'd see they are massive problems in the product's current design architecture. Will it get better? Of course. Is it ready for prime time? Not at all. Even the monetary cost (the subscription) is dismissed because part of that cost additionally provides Photoshop but many people don't need or want Photoshop. Or being forced to build Smart Previews and load them onto a cloud they don't use, another set of points that are not on your terms and thus not under discussion because they are on my terms.

LrM doesn't provide a single useful feature or advantage today that I need and apparently I'm not the only person who feels that way.
LrM isn't a sweetener or even a bad toy, it's a badly implemented product. And as long as it doesn't suck the resources of Adobe such that LR6 is a worthy upgrade, I'll be fine with it. And I'll ignore it until it provides something useful. Today that's not the case and I told you more than once why.
Quote
I think the problem here is that you are trying to place LrM too firmly on the critical path.
No, I just want a solution to a problem that isn't a complete waste of my time. LrM 1.0 is just that, a huge waste of my valuable time and I told you why. I also have a vastly better tool to do that work without the restrictions of the tablet (it's a laptop). If like you I had the laptop in the car instead of the iPad, and if I felt that was a great time to be working on my images, I could do that better and faster than you did and that's the rub. The tablet + LrM (1.0) is a sick joke compared to even an older MacBook and LR5.4.

Bottom line for me and I suspect many others: LrM doesn't provide a single compelling advantage over older solutions that don't require the extra time, the use of only the Adobe cloud, a subscription, or a faster and more efficient workflow that existed long before people used tablets. Not one. As I've said, it's at this point a solution in search of a problem. What advances we see in tablets and LrM in the future doesn't change those issues today. At such a time those limitations are lessened, LrM may be a very viable product. Today it's not even a toy, it's a joke built by and large by Adobe marketing. I'm sure I speak for most that I hope that changes. I'd love to be even a bit enthusiastic about the product. The product has to earn that enthusiasm and 1.0 doesn't. End of story.
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
john beardsworth
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2832



WWW
« Reply #99 on: April 19, 2014, 10:02:47 AM »
ReplyReply

Er, I gave you answers. FFS.
Logged

Pages: « 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad