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Author Topic: Calibrated environment: Monitor and Epson  (Read 2551 times)
D Fosse
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2014, 05:07:33 PM »
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Just keep in mind that it isn't as complicated as many people will tell you it is... it may seem confusing on the surface, but the basic underlying principle is universal and applies everywhere (no, it's not 42  Grin)

Here it is: source color space > profile connection space > destination color space. The PCS in the middle there is the fixed color reference. It's under the hood and hidden to the user, but ties everything together.

So you as a user need to keep track of two profiles - a source profile, and a destination profile. What color space is the file coming from, and what color space is it going to. That's basically it.

What complicates it is when color management stops, in applications that don't do it. Then anything can happen, and troubleshooting consists mainly of figuring out exactly where the chain breaks.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 05:16:07 PM by D Fosse » Logged
Sunny Alan
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« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2014, 09:58:39 PM »
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Thanks Fosse,
It is a valuable short cut.
In fact I am in a bit bewildered situation thinking to continue my School days once again to crack some hard nuts of physics or science, which was the toughest subjects in my life  Grin Huh
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Sunny Alan
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« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2014, 01:02:12 PM »
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Calibration:

Should I go for X-Rite i1Basic Pro 2 which is cheaper, or X-Rite i1Photo Pro 2 ?

Need my camera and monitor has to be calibrated,and I need to profile various substrates.

Thanks
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PhilipCummins
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« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2014, 10:03:29 PM »
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You would be better off getting i1Photo Pro 2 for printer calibration support as well (RGB). Have a look at X-Rite's site to compare the products to see which one is preferable for your requirements (now and future ones).
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Sunny Alan
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« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2014, 12:21:52 AM »
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Further on my browsing and study, found a FREE software solution 'ArgyllCMS'.

It is open source, and people acclaim it's effectiveness.

Then why on earth I spent some $2000 on i1Photo pro2, is my question.

Some suggested ArgyllCMS+Colormunki hardware is best.

Some sharing please...
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 12:24:25 AM by Sunny Alan » Logged
Simon Garrett
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« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2014, 02:39:13 AM »
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Further on my browsing and study, found a FREE software solution 'ArgyllCMS'.

It is open source, and people acclaim it's effectiveness.

Then why on earth I spent some $2000 on i1Photo pro2, is my question.

Some suggested ArgyllCMS+Colormunki hardware is best.

Some sharing please...

I use the ColorMunki Display and Argyll s/w.  The only disadvantage (apart from the pain of figuring out how to install Argyll, and the dispcalGUI Windows interface) is that with the ColorMunki Display it's a bit slow - over 30 minutes for "Calibration speed: Medium" and "Profile quality: High". 
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Czornyj
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« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2014, 05:45:06 AM »
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Further on my browsing and study, found a FREE software solution 'ArgyllCMS'.

It is open source, and people acclaim it's effectiveness.

Then why on earth I spent some $2000 on i1Photo pro2, is my question.

Some suggested ArgyllCMS+Colormunki hardware is best.

Some sharing please...

ColorMunki Photo/Design spectrophotometer has some problems regarding reading large amount of colour patches - it gets warm from scanning and operators hand, which has influence on measurements. It's also not convenient in such activities. The sensor has UV-cut LED emitter, so it also doesn't take paper OBA into account. It also captures a lot of noise when measuring dark patches, which implies that it's not the best sensor out there for monitor calibration

i1Pro2 has electronic thermal drift and dark current noise compensation, VIS tungsten and UV LED emitters, a very smart and convenient ruler for semi-automatic scanning of target patches, and wavelength calibration - so it offers faster, more stable, repeatable and "clean" measurements, can compensate for OBA, and has quite good i1Profiler software, which is much simpler in use than mighty ArgyllCMS that's quite complicated and not convenient in use at all - while dispcalGUI simplifies monitor calibration and profiling, there's no reasonable GUI for printer profiling.

In case you have time and skill to play with command line spells of Argyll, I'd suggest getting an used i1Pro1 rather than ColorMunki Photo/Design - a ruler for semi-automatic measurements of target patches for printer profile creation should not be underestimated.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 05:49:12 AM by Czornyj » Logged

JRSmit
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« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2014, 11:14:56 AM »
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+1 to the i1 pro2 photo. I use it and find it very usefull without eating up my time.
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PhilipCummins
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« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2014, 06:44:05 AM »
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Further on my browsing and study, found a FREE software solution 'ArgyllCMS'. It is open source, and people acclaim it's effectiveness. Then why on earth I spent some $2000 on i1Photo pro2, is my question. Some suggested ArgyllCMS+Colormunki hardware is best. Some sharing please...

You're paying at least $450 to $1500 for the hardware to handle chart/spot reading (as a true spectrophotometer). At the cheapest you would be spending about $450 for a ColorMunki Photo which is UV-cut as Czornyj mentions (with other issues), or possibly $1150 for the i1Pro2 hardware (in the i1 Basic Pro 2 configuration) which handles both UV-cut and no filter recordings however I'd recommend getting i1Photo Pro 2 so you could at least do RGB profiles. (That's assuming you're buying new - you could get a cheaper second hand i1Pro however there are quite a few combos released over the years that limit what you can do*).

You could use Argyll CMS as Simon mentions with DispCal GUI for monitor profiling or you could use Argyll CMS GUI + the command line tools if you wanted to experiment with chart or spot reading. However, your milage would vary with how much time you can put into it, as Czornyj says. If you wanted to you could download the i1Profiler software (in demo mode) to compare with Argyll CMS to see which one would be easiest to handle for what you're trying to do. You can check the docs for Argyll here. Unfortunately I haven't really gotten into Argyll myself - mostly due to lack of time to devote to it unfortunately!

Getting back to your original question i1Profiler itself won't do Camera calibration (though it would do the Monitor and Printer calibration) as you'd need the ColorChecker Passport software or other software + photographable target such as one of the ColorCheckers (original, Passport or SG), SpyderCheckr or some other target with known or measure values you can use to help build the camera profile. In general once you have a target (usually you get the ColorChecker Mini with i1 Photo Pro 2) you can photograph this and use it with different software packages. It'll be up to you to try out and find which one works best for you in your workflow.

* When it comes to second hand i1 Pro's there's a stack of them on the market that have different licensing which breaks down to roughly:

1) Whether you have a license for i1Match or i1Profiler (some rare ones have both if they were upgraded) - if it was a 3rd party OEM product bundled with EFI or CalMAN/ChromaPure it may have no licenses at all.
2) What features are enabled in i1Match (from memory camera, profile editor, CMYK, RGB and scanner support could be enabled from i1Basic Pro).
3) What features are enabled in i1Profiler (generally just Display, then options for Scanner/Camera + RGB or then +CMYK profiling).

None of the above impacts Argyll CMS however, only i1Profiler or i1Match (less of a problem as it's been deprecated). If you were after i1Profiler and buying second hand you should get the i1 Photo Pro bundle (version 1 or 2 with i1Profiler), otherwise it's likely it wouldn't be licensed. If you were happy with Argyll CMS you don't have to worry - you're after the hardware only.

Note: X-Rite changed the names around, so you may see the older bundles as Eye-One (instead of i1), or i1Basic, i1XT, i1XTreme, i1Photo, i1Photo SG, i1Proof, etc with or without UV-cut. So gets pretty difficult to work out exactly what you're getting sometimes on second hand deals.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 01:58:17 AM by PhilipCummins » Logged
Sunny Alan
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« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2014, 01:33:50 PM »
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Thank you Simon Garrett, Czornyj, JRSmit, PhilipCummins, D Fosse and many others who helped me with expert advices.

I was about to buy ‘i1photo pro2’, as it calibrate my A7r, monitor, and make printer profiles for 9900.
It is Simon Garrett brought in the ‘Argyll’ thing. I become interested in the FREE software against the $1500 X-Rite.
And also the usual ‘getting something free’ happiness too….

Now if you majority say, FREE is not free, time is the cost, well, I will backtrack to pay for X-Rite.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2014, 01:38:00 PM »
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Yup, it's kind of useful to separate the hardware from the software in terms of what you're paying for. The big costs here are of course for hardware (i1Pro-2 or whatever device you end up getting). And indeed, time is money.
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Andrew Rodney
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