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Author Topic: Sony a7s  (Read 9299 times)
Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2014, 04:49:43 AM »
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Coots.

Have you found that Kowa 8mm 1.4? - seems a killer for the Pocket.
Im sure you know the SLRM 12mm and voigt 17 of course.

Kowa..
http://www.rmaelectronics.com/kowa-lm8hc-1-8mm-f1-4-manual-iris-c-mount-lens-2-megapixel/

You need a Cmount adapter and maybe to get some bit machined off (!)

S



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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
JB Rasor
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« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2014, 02:44:26 PM »
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Thanks for the feedback guys! Very helpful information. Sorry to bump into the current discussion.

One thing I have noticed, and was quite surprised to find, is that the noise present at ISO 3200 in sLog2 is rather substantial. I've researched some material and found mixed messages about exposing for the highlights vs ETTR when shooting sLog2. Have you guys found that sLog2, on the A7s, works best exposing a bit to the right? That seems to be NewsShooter's findings: http://www.newsshooter.com/2014/08/13/can-the-sony-a7s-really-give-good-skin-tones-david-carstens-has-the-answer/
I've had mixed results frankly, so maybe it's my newness to the camera and log video recording. I'm just trying to get a good clean image lol. Any tips? Thanks everyone!!

JB
   
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bcooter
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« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2014, 04:13:54 PM »
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Thanks for the feedback guys! Very helpful information. Sorry to bump into the current discussion.

One thing I have noticed, and was quite surprised to find, is that the noise present at ISO 3200 in sLog2 is rather substantial. I've researched some material and found mixed messages about exposing for the highlights vs ETTR when shooting sLog2. Have you guys found that sLog2, on the A7s, works best exposing a bit to the right? That seems to be NewsShooter's findings: http://www.newsshooter.com/2014/08/13/can-the-sony-a7s-really-give-good-skin-tones-david-carstens-has-the-answer/
I've had mixed results frankly, so maybe it's my newness to the camera and log video recording. I'm just trying to get a good clean image lol. Any tips? Thanks everyone!!

JB
   




Though I don't have or use an A7s, we do use flat logs in our cameras, from RED's gamma 3, to the technicolor log for our Canons.

Actually today just completed a "film" test of three cameras, our RED Scarlet, the 70D with Technicolor flat and the blackmagic pocket cc which has a flat curve.

Iso was 800 on the RED, 320 on the Canon and I think 400 on the bmpcc.

The results were with a flat curve all we're noisy, the RED most controllable in Cinex, not so much in Resolve 11.

The Canon was virtually identical to the RED in Cinex but blew one small highlight that should have been under the furthest highlight, which doesn't make sense.

The bmpcc had the sharpest file (by a long way) and from medium highlights down was tremendous, but didn't hold highlight detail as well as the other cameras.

What was noticeable on all three was the high amount of noise.

The RED always has some noise at 800 iso and resembles kodak vision film, but even the Canon at 320 iso had almost an equal amount of noise to the RED which is interesting,
because set with a normal still curve of neutral and faithful, shows no noise.

Once you really flatted a file, either in camera or later in post it accentuates the noise.

Personally it doesn't both me, (unless I'm shooting a key) as noise does not show on motion like it does on stills and it tends to smooth out banding and gradients in post grading.

So I assume, even though the Sony is based at 3200 iso, once you open up the curve to get a flat capture, the noise will appear.  I assume that to be normal, (whatever normal is).

IMO

BC



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sanjaynarayan
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« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2014, 10:31:46 PM »
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Thanks for the feedback guys! Very helpful information. Sorry to bump into the current discussion.

One thing I have noticed, and was quite surprised to find, is that the noise present at ISO 3200 in sLog2 is rather substantial. I've researched some material and found mixed messages about exposing for the highlights vs ETTR when shooting sLog2. Have you guys found that sLog2, on the A7s, works best exposing a bit to the right? That seems to be NewsShooter's findings: http://www.newsshooter.com/2014/08/13/can-the-sony-a7s-really-give-good-skin-tones-david-carstens-has-the-answer/
I've had mixed results frankly, so maybe it's my newness to the camera and log video recording. I'm just trying to get a good clean image lol. Any tips? Thanks everyone!!

JB
   

with the zebras on, expose as much to the right as possible in slog2 with saturation bit bumped up, that is the mantra we are trying to follow...the fact that we are discussing 3200 ISO as BASE
itself is insane...noise is acceptable...IMHO A7s is the best low light sensor in dslr world right now and we've got it for a project which is mostly low light/lit with practicals...this camera needs
best glass though...our L canon zooms just don't cut it...i tried the zeiss primes at the dealer and this camera sings... in lower iso's with the right profile selected we're getting very good results
but needs more testing...i love the af on my 70d, suits my style, i wish the sony had af and stabilisation like 70d...i wonder what the two big boys of dslr world will bring this photokina...maybe nothing...

www.sanjaynarayan.com
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fredjeang2
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« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2014, 05:35:16 AM »
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BTW:  I know RED is a love hate thing for most dop's and operators, but for the price, the final look, I still think RED does the best job of any serious digital cinema camera maker.

IMO

BC



Couldn't agree more.
Strictly talking from the post production area, and
Of course everything being relative to personal tastes,
I simply love to work with Red material and for a number
Of resons.
This is actually true that the Alexa brings apparently
A more straightforward workflow for 90% of the cases
But it depends how one sees it.
Red did their own route but what matters to me is that
They managed to bring the tools for any sistem in post.
Avid and ProRes requires roundtriping in the chain and
Is linked to Apple. Red works the same way on anything.
True that their gamma jargon is confusing but file implementation
Is nailed and a joy to work with in post. Specially when
versionings have to be done in batch in real time.
The looks that can be acheive are robust and filmic without
Needing coffees. The way they implemented the metadatas
Files is really great and specially noticiable when it comes
To deal with big volume and long editing. It gives stability
And fleibility. So far. I haven't noticed any banding issue
With any Red material. Yes, as Coot pointed, noise can be present
But IMO it tends to look like organic film grain.
For the costs of a basic Red system, I think that nothing
So far brings so much for the money invested.
As far as noise is concerned when shooting flat, as there
Is always the posibility to dedo anything that was done
In production (for the Red One maybe not) because
All curve being in the end a simple metadata independant
Of the raw material that has been recorded, it's never
Destructive. (again, I'm not in prod and as the R1 uses a different
Implementation than the Scarlet-Epic, it may well be that
Shooting flat on the R1 is different. I ignore this fact).
Also, I ignore if with the R1 the widest range is obtained
At 800 isos, wich I guess it is and makes sense).
Anyway, in a world of proliferation of new cameras every week,
Of raws badly implementated, of 4k on the cheap that nobody
Needs on the cheap, (R we shooting Marvels?), Red is
The only truth profesional affordable system, universal (no
Pro-f....g-Res) , flexible, capable to suits from indy to
hollywood super prods. Nothing else on earth so far does that.

Ps: I've Heard from Alexists that they hate to work with Red because they heat-up too much, because the fan is noisy, because the profiles are a mess, because this that or the other...
and then you go to the Redists who claim the poor resolution and speed and cost of the Arri and that the DR advantage is a mirage and bla bla...
IMO, when it comes to photographers doing motion work (like most in such a website as Lu-La), Red is the system.

Ps2: there is a calculation worth doing (you know exactly like the smoker who makes calculations on how much is spent every month in tabacco...)
Since the DSLR saga, how much money have we spent from the 5D2 to the latest generations, including all the accessories circus, the time in adaptation from
a new magic tool to another, the time spent in transcoding, the time spent in testings in order to fix common issues, in order to hack the cameras etc...
well...with distance I think that a Red system and an Autodesk Smoke and end of the story. No more mess. Good to go for 10 years while the rest of the world is testing
and burning the wallet in every japanese novelty and post prod tools like FCPX.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 12:53:39 PM by fredjeang2 » Logged
Hywel
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« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2014, 03:23:45 PM »
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For the costs of a basic Red system, I think that nothing
So far brings so much for the money invested.
...
IMO, when it comes to photographers doing motion work (like most in such a website as Lu-La), Red is the system.


That was my feeling a few years ago when I bought my RED and it is still my feeling now: maximal bang for the buck.

If you like RAW workflow and colour correcting like a stills photographer, RED works that way. RED's killer feature is REDcode and the workflow.

My AF100 has been eBayed. My 7D is relegated to occasional use only. I use my iPhone more often (I have a neat ikan gimbal rig and Filmic Pro on an iPhone 5s which gives me better detail and higher bit-rates than either the AF100 or 7D. Sure, the DR is crap and the depth of field is deep, but that's actually an advantage for flying around on a gimbal).

But the RED? The RED is going to be my main production camera for at least the next five years. There's nothing announced or rumoured that's going to touch it, except for Alexas and similar exotica which are out of my price bracket and look set to remain so.

Anything else will be a b-cam for specific purposes.

Cheers, Hywel




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bcooter
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« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2014, 06:56:57 AM »
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That was my feeling a few years ago when I bought my RED and it is still my feeling now: maximal bang for the buck.
snip
Anything else will be a b-cam for specific purposes.

Cheers, Hywel




I guess it's all subjective.

I don't shoot cinema but want that "cinema" look however you get there.   

Those online tests I see of every new camera all look the same to me, except for a few differences in highlight control, or sharpness, but on set in a real project things look different.

This week shot with the 70d cause the gig has quick movements,  the 70d is perfect for that style.  First I did a mix of about 70% 70d footage and 30% RED Scarlet.

In review the Scarlet footage looked so much nicer.  Not pixel peeping, color test comparing nice, it just looked different, more crafted more important, more  . . . cinema like.

So the rest of the week I shot 70% Scarlet 30% 70d and the results showed and though I can't give an exact example why, I just know how it looks.

Like Hywel I view the RED's as a long term purchase.   

They're obviously heavier and more difficult to set up and run than a small dslr and  small things like arms, lens mounts, modules, monitors, viewfinders are expensive.

Though when I add up how much I've spent on dslrs and all the stuff it takes to make them a semi serious motion camera, the cost isn't that far apart, especially considering  the
dslrs are not that robust and everyone seems to change them out every year or so.

When you look at the new cameras from AJA and blackmagic that look to be less priced than the REDs (depending on model) those are large ENG shaped cameras that
weigh double that of a Scarlet/Epic or even a RED1 and still need dedicated accessories to make work. 

In fact if cost is an issue, a RED1 is still very good and can be bought for 1/6 of the original price and it too will be viable for years.

My take is if your serious about shooting motion content, use a serious camera and of course serious is also very subjective.

I still have to thank RED for changing it all.   Prior to Jim J, movie cameras were out of reach to anyone but rental companies and large video cameras were news gathering monsters that costs $100,000 and looked like . . . video.

RED shocked everyone by offering a cinema camera good enough for a blockbuster movie at a price that is about the same as a medium format still camera system.

IMO

BC


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