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Author Topic: Aperture or Lightroom ??  (Read 30548 times)
john beardsworth
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« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2014, 01:57:54 AM »
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I agree.  It helps prevent Alzheimer's Disease.  Car companies should learn from that.  When you are in first gear, stepping on the gas pedal makes it accelerate.  When you are in reverse gear, stepping on the gas pedal [feel free to fill in the blanks].

Not sure about the analogy. When you are pressing the same pedal, you do expect the same thing to happen. But when the context is different, you don't. I use my left hand to change gear, but when I rent a car in continental Europe or the US I readily learn not to grab the door handle and to use my right. Same thing with Lightroom. When you focus on one task, you don't need half the alphabet to be allocated to other tasks.

John
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 01:12:58 PM by john beardsworth » Logged

trichardlin
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« Reply #61 on: May 10, 2014, 12:47:27 PM »
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Not sure about the analogy. When you are pressing the same pedal, you do expect the same method. But when the context is different, you don't. I use my left hand to change gear, but when I rent a car in continental Europe or the US I readily learn not to grab the door handle and to use my right. Same thing with Lightroom. When you focus on one task, you don't need half the alphabet to be allocated to other tasks.

John

Never mind.  Sarcasm got the better of me.  Your UK/US scenario is a good one.  Wouldn't it be nice if all countries standardize on the same? 

Here's another thing that I need help with: in Library mode, I would look at a photo in loupe view, then swipe left on my mouse to go to the NEXT photo (on a Mac) like you would on a phone or tablet or in other Mac apps, but Lightroom would send me several photos down.  Is there any way to make it behave in a predictable pattern?  This feature is completely counterproductive.  It's worse than doing nothing because then you have to do more work to find your way back.

I know I'm a LR newbie, but sometimes LR seems to ignore common convention (i.e. how rest of the world operates) and forces me to memorize an unnecessary set of commands for no apparent reasons (see above example). 
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CatOne
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« Reply #62 on: May 19, 2014, 08:31:02 PM »
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Oh, in Lightroom "If I spot a dust spot that needs fixing, I want to press 'q' and do it right now."

The problem, though, is when you do this in loupe view, you get a 2-3 second delay while Lightroom switches to develop and renders the image from the RAW file.

As a long-time user of Aperture, and a many-time-attempter with Lightroom, I can say that this is a HUGELY noticeable thing. For better or for worse, it is VERY common when I'm doing the initial edit (and by that, I mean making picks) of photos, that I will see something that I need to adjust before I can make a decision. It may be healing (to see if I _can_ heal), or straightening, or something else small. With Aperture, it's a tap and immediate tweak and then I'm back to where I was. With Lightroom, you try to edit and it has to SWITCH MODES slowly, then you tweak, and then your grid view or other stuff is gone. It's really, really difficult to get used to the Lightroom way once you're used to Aperture's way, and I'm damned if I haven't tried. To make light of this is really indicating that you haven't spent any time with the freedom on this that Aperture affords.

I do think that a lot of time, most of the criticisms leveled at Aperture are from folks who haven't even spent any real time with it  Huh
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2014, 02:03:58 AM »
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A lot of the time, perhaps. but not here. Of course, I could dismiss others' criticisms of Lightroom with the same bland assertion.

Yes, Lightroom does encourage you to focus on the task and not keep flitting to others. I won't shout back, but even if I believed this 2-3 second delay I could point to advantages which you just don't have in Aperture. Dust spotting works this way (in fact all Lightroom adjustments do) but since you mention straightening.... Imagine you have to straighten a series of 5 or 10 or whatever number of pictures. AutoSync in Lightroom means I straighten one and they're all done - nothing more to do. Meanwhile in Aperture that's 5 or 6 clicks lift and stamp, isn't it?

John
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CatOne
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« Reply #64 on: May 20, 2014, 01:26:04 PM »
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... since you mention straightening.... Imagine you have to straighten a series of 5 or 10 or whatever number of pictures. AutoSync in Lightroom means I straighten one and they're all done - nothing more to do. Meanwhile in Aperture that's 5 or 6 clicks lift and stamp, isn't it?

Well, you can use keyboard shortcuts so you can lift adjustments, and then stamp the adjustments, so we're talking a couple clicks and a key combination. But true, Aperture does not have Auto-Sync. That said, about 50% of the time I use Auto-Sync I end up doing something REALLY BAD in that I apply an adjustment to a bunch of photos that I REALLY DIDN'T want to apply.

There are a few things I'll freely admit that Lightroom does better (or exclusively) right now:
* Sharpening overall is better. You have more control, and can get better results
* I still like the targeted adjustment tool and how you can use it to operate on the photo itself
* The basic adjustments are better. Whites, blacks, shadows, highlights in LR have more control and give better results
* The gradient tool in LR is great, and there's no equivalent in Aperture. It gives great results for a lot of exposure balancing.
* Lens corrections and auto CA removal. I shoot a number of wide angle landscapes that have curved horizons and this is KILLER
* LR's clarity tool can do more with better results than Aperture's "definition" equivalent can

I find Aperture's file management better (it is more flexible, period), and I tend to get better initial renders with Aperture than I do with LR with the "defaults." I can get good results with LR but it's more work. Aperture does a very, very good job with the defaults, and the "auto" setting that came in with Aperture 3.3 is simply fantastic. The skin-tone based white balance is also incredibly useful. I had to work through 1000 shots of kids playing baseball in a grassy field and there was nary a grey thing in the scene to balance on; using skin tones for this is pretty great (now given they were all in sun I could have fudged and struggled for 5 minutes in LR to get the WB right in one, and then used Auto-Sync to do the rest, but I digress  Wink)
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #65 on: May 20, 2014, 02:12:27 PM »
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Well, you can use keyboard shortcuts so you can lift adjustments, and then stamp the adjustments, so we're talking a couple clicks and a key combination. But true, Aperture does not have Auto-Sync. That said, about 50% of the time I use Auto-Sync I end up doing something REALLY BAD in that I apply an adjustment to a bunch of photos that I REALLY DIDN'T want to apply.

It's about 5 clicks to AutoSync's 1, because lift and stamp means you have to select which adjustments to include and exclude. And you soon learn from your AutoSync mistakes and stop making them (I advise leaving it on all the time). Even if you didn't notice an error immediately, Lightroom retains your history steps, ie an undo feature which is available no matter how many times you close the program.
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jjj
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« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2014, 07:08:25 PM »
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I find Aperture's file management better (it is more flexible, period)
In what way?
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trichardlin
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« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2014, 11:08:58 AM »
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The problem, though, is when you do this in loupe view, you get a 2-3 second delay while Lightroom switches to develop and renders the image from the RAW file...

Also when you go from normal to 1:1 view.  To me, LR is not necessarily slow in anyway, but it stutters, a lot.

Some would say these are all little things, and it's true.  But it's the little things that drives one crazy, isn't it?

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CatOne
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« Reply #68 on: May 25, 2014, 09:05:43 AM »
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But it's the little things that drives one crazy, isn't it?


Absolutely  Wink

Both are great tools, and they both do pretty much the same thing. But Lightroom is better in some ways, Aperture is better in others, and both tools have their share of quirks. The only way to know which you like, and which of the "quirks" are annoying enough to want to use another tool, is to use them both.
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gfsymon
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« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2014, 02:38:46 AM »
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Now if Apple would just better support/fix some issues with DNG (like the lack of previews in the Finder).

Andrew,

I have no trouble with DNG Finder Previews in 10.9.3 (and going back many versions ... I can't remember how many).  The DNGs are created with Sinar software.  Choosing 'icon view' in the Finder and resizing the icons shows that the previews are re-built fast and without issues.  However, the Thumbnails remain as they were when originally imported, which is as you would expect, but it would be better if they were also generated from the DNGs themselves in the same way that the Previews are.  Consequently, the Thumbnails may show, as for example in my case, over-exposed areas in red, which is how they arrive in Sinar Capture software.  But as I say, the Finder will re-generate the Previews directly from the DNGs themselves so become 'out of step' with the Thumbnails.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #70 on: May 27, 2014, 10:24:02 AM »
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I have no trouble with DNG Finder Previews in 10.9.3 (and going back many versions ... I can't remember how many). 
10.9.3, issues seem fixed (I can see all DNG icons now).
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Andrew Rodney
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Martin Archer-Shee
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« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2014, 08:32:52 PM »
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Wow

Looks like I started a bit of a discussion... re Lightroom and Aperture. Saw a number of good points and was willing to have a shot at Aperture. Now it seems that Aperture is to be no more, at least as a supported  program, app, or whatever they are called now days. Same result, lots of people left in the lurch after years of support and belief.

Looks like LR "wins" by default. I moved, at least partway, to Apple , based on the commitment to quality and development etc. Did I make a mistake? I like my MB pro but is that enough?

Sad to see any software/ hardware company drop out. Mind you there have to be business reasons to keep going..... Makes me think of Beta which was by far a superior system, but not as well promoted and accepted.

Cheers.... see you on the LR page in the fall??

Martin

 Huh
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ButchM
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« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2014, 08:47:36 PM »
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Did I make a mistake? I like my MB pro but is that enough?

No, all is still well.

So far, the only thing we know for sure is the application known as Aperture has reached an end of life. However, if you do some further research on what Apple has in the works for handling RAW images at the system level, and the new tools they are offering developers that can extend upon that foundation ... I'd say the future of RAW image handling on the Apple platform has a distinctly bright future that holds much potential ... there just won't be a typical monolithic application at the core.

For me, this announcement has done nothing to hamper my daily workflow in Aperture. It works the same as it did a few days ago and Apple has said it will be supported for at least through Yosemite. I'm holding off making any move away from Apple until this all moves a little further along so I can really get a better handle on how it is going to work.
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #73 on: June 30, 2014, 01:29:38 AM »
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there just won't be a typical monolithic application at the core.

And apparently Apple now want us to believe that's no longer a good thing. 
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ButchM
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« Reply #74 on: June 30, 2014, 08:47:30 AM »
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And apparently Apple now want us to believe that's no longer a good thing. 

Maybe it isn't going forward. We'll have to wait and see how this all works to have a better idea of what Apple has in mind.
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RobSaecker
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« Reply #75 on: June 30, 2014, 11:47:13 AM »
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We'll have to wait and see how this all works to have a better idea of what Apple has in mind.

You know, I'm coming around to that idea. Part of my initial reaction is just a reluctance to be forced to change my habits workflow; I’d rather spend my time making images than learning new software. But change is inevitable, and who knows, it may end up better.
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Rob
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Bob Rockefeller
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« Reply #76 on: June 30, 2014, 06:47:24 PM »
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Remember, this doesn't have to be a question of Aperture or Lightroom. Neither are perfect, both are excellent.

There is also Capture One Pro. It, too, is not perfect. But it is excellent.

And it's somewhat more Aperture-like in that it does not switch modes as does Lightroom and has a more custom interface. It's library features are not as well developed and it's short on output choices, especially built-in books.

But its adjustment tools are very powerful; arguably more powerful than Lightroom giving better results in RAW conversion.

Check the reviews and check the software. You can get a 60-day free fully functioning trial.

I'm making the switch to Capture One Pro after using Aperture from version 1.0 and Lightroom on and off since version 3.

I'll be blogging about my experiences over at www.bobrockefeller.com.
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Bob
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jjj
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« Reply #77 on: June 30, 2014, 07:08:12 PM »
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And it's somewhat more Aperture-like in that it does not switch modes as does Lightroom and has a more custom interface.
I've always found the complaint about that some people have about modules in LR a bit odd. You click on a Develop or Adjustment in LR/Ap and it changes part of the interface to show you image tweaking tools, you click on Faces or Places in Ap and the interfaces changes to display those tools, just like if you go to the maps/web module in LR. I don't really see any practical difference, particularly if the top panel of LR that tells you what module you are in is not showing [I hide it]. To my mind that's the thing that makes people think it's more different than it really is.
Though I do wish LR's interface was a bit more customisable like C1's is.
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Adam L
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« Reply #78 on: June 30, 2014, 07:17:41 PM »
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How will the iCloud Photo library work?  It smells like subscription   Shocked
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ButchM
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« Reply #79 on: June 30, 2014, 07:56:35 PM »
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How will the iCloud Photo library work?  It smells like subscription   Shocked

It sounds like it will work very similar to the way Photo Stream works now. Each user will receive a free base amount of space but you can purchase more space if you desire. It is a subscription, though it is not mandatory that you purchase more space.
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