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Author Topic: Sony A7s to get dynamic range of 15.3 stops?  (Read 5673 times)
Vladimirovich
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« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2014, 08:41:47 AM »
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To match Sony sensors, as used by Nikon, Canon needs to build a new fabrication facility, a multi billion Dollar investment.

or they can design (not the specific sensor, but multiple ADCs on die technology) and outsource the fabrication... it is not like anybody 'd refuse to fab for Canon... so this is not a valid argument.



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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2014, 01:10:24 AM »
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Yes,

That is a good argument, but Canon is said to build an 0.18 micron fab.

Another observation may be that Canon shooters are quite happy with the cameras, lenses and high ISO capabilities. Those needing high DR and high resolution may be a small minority. That may explain why Canon is a bit lenient on sensor development.

Best regards
Erik

or they can design (not the specific sensor, but multiple ADCs on die technology) and outsource the fabrication... it is not like anybody 'd refuse to fab for Canon... so this is not a valid argument.




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Keith Reeder
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« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2014, 04:48:24 AM »
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Those needing high DR and high resolution may be a small minority. That may explain why Canon is a bit lenient on sensor development.

Some of us have been correctly making that exact point for some years now, Erik.

Simple proof? Just look at which camera company sells the most cameras...  If Canon wasn't making (more or less) the right cameras for the vast majority of its customers, it simply wouldn't be the market leader, and either Nikon or Sony would be.

How are they doing, financially?

Oh, yeah...

Clearly, the potential market share to be gained from courting the small-but-vociferous high DR/high res crowd isn't really worth the trouble to Canon. So if it happens (and FWIW, I imagine it will) it will be on Canon's terms, and not because of the noise and heat coming from some numerically insignificant sector of the market.

(But as an aside, can I point out that it wasn't that long ago - in "generational" terms - that the highest resolution DSLR available was the Canon 1Ds Mk III? Everything that came afterwards was in response to Canon).
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Keith Reeder
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hjulenissen
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« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2014, 05:22:29 AM »
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Simple proof? Just look at which camera company sells the most cameras...  If Canon wasn't making (more or less) the right cameras for the vast majority of its customers, it simply wouldn't be the market leader, and either Nikon or Sony would be.

How are they doing, financially?

Oh, yeah...
I am sure that Kodak did quite well for some time as well. Doing well today is important, but it is not sufficient to guarantee success tomorrow.

Is 14+ stops of DR critical to most users? Probably not. But then, most users don't need 800mm teles, fancy tracking AF or any number of other distinguishing features of different camera/systems/vendors. Digital cameras seems to be entering a "mature" stage where night-and-day improvements are not to be expected.
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(But as an aside, can I point out that it wasn't that long ago - in "generational" terms - that the highest resolution DSLR available was the Canon 1Ds Mk III? Everything that came afterwards was in response to Canon).
And I am sure that "brand-loyal" users had strong opinion about the imporance vs unimportance of resolution at that point in time.

-h
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2014, 02:33:01 PM »
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Those needing high DR and high resolution may be a small minority.
so that constant increase in resolution in Canon cameras (till Canon hit the end of their current technological capabilities) was not feeding any minority :-)

somebody mentioned 1Ds MkIII, so why increase from 1Ds MkII - who needs those 21mp  Grin ... 17mp was plenty
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scooby70
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« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2014, 06:19:59 PM »
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so that constant increase in resolution in Canon cameras (till Canon hit the end of their current technological capabilities) was not feeding any minority :-)

somebody mentioned 1Ds MkIII, so why increase from 1Ds MkII - who needs those 21mp  Grin ... 17mp was plenty

Maybe no new feature, technology or product is required until Canon make it Cheesy
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SecondFocus
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« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2014, 10:31:06 PM »
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More than the rumored DR, I would be really excited about the complete silent mode. Having shot for a couple of months on a movie with Canon bodies and lenses in a sound blimp is a serious test of stamina and just plain tough work. A small system like this with a range of lenses not requiring sound blimps would be a huge improvement. Even coming down to being able to get a couple of bodies and lenses into a small carry-on would be a huge blessing. Count me as seriously interested!
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Ian L. Sitren
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2014, 09:42:24 AM »
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More than the rumored DR, I would be really excited about the complete silent mode.

simple rolling shutter and most probably with further image degradation (like it is used for video - ADCs on chip in 10bit mode to facilitate the fast readout)

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michael
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« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2014, 10:38:19 AM »
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The claimed and rumoured DR is not what people expect.

There will be results shortly from testing labs.

Michael
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marlon127
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« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2014, 01:03:41 PM »
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Sony only made the announcement about 15.3 stops of DR expansion a couple of weeks ago, making it quite impossible for DXO to test the a7s with the update, as it is not available.  Perhaps a bit of restraint is necessary folks...

http://presscentre.sony.eu//content/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=9810&NewsAreaID=2
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Hulyss
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« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2014, 01:31:13 PM »
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Might be in video mode with S-LOG and not yet on Stills.

Anyway, this is a nice piece of hardware especially with the electronic shutter (holly cow !!!). Might be the future brother of my D700.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2014, 02:30:51 PM »
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Hi,

I agree. I would expect a bit more DR at base ISO, with regard to the "fat" pixels. I think the camera is more intended for video than stills. Probably great for high ISO, but that is not my cup of tea.

No A7x camera for  me. A9? Maybe, if it has a new sensor with electronic first curtain and 54 MP.

Best regards
Erik

Sony only made the announcement about 15.3 stops of DR expansion a couple of weeks ago, making it quite impossible for DXO to test the a7s with the update, as it is not available.  Perhaps a bit of restraint is necessary folks...

http://presscentre.sony.eu//content/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=9810&NewsAreaID=2
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marlon127
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« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2014, 04:13:50 PM »
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I would assume that to get up to 15.3 stops on DR, every ISO setting would get between 1-2 stops improvement with the new firmware.  Considering how well it's done with just 12 MP's on an initial test using the existing firmware, I think it bodes well for Sony. 
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Chris L
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« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2014, 03:10:12 PM »
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I would assume that to get up to 15.3 stops on DR, every ISO setting would get between 1-2 stops improvement with the new firmware.  Considering how well it's done with just 12 MP's on an initial test using the existing firmware, I think it bodes well for Sony. 

Trying to understand this new camera. It seems it currently has 13.1 stops of DR, but is thread implying there will be a firmware upgrade that gives it 15 + stops of DR when shooting raw stills? Right now I heard to get maximum DR in video mode you need to shoot in S-log at iso 3200 which is showing up with noise ( source; prolost.com ), but the DR in video mode is impressive some folks are saying.
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