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Author Topic: less weight  (Read 2944 times)
kengai
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« on: June 15, 2014, 12:18:52 AM »
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fatigued by the weight of the D3, lens and accessory to some, I'm thinking the Sony A7 as a possible solution for the non-specific occasions or at the street. We get back as much quality of the files?
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Ed B
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« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2014, 12:38:34 AM »
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F Sony. It seems they are going to bring out a curved sensor which will probably mean new lenses AGAIN. If weight is an issue, go with Fuji.
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peterottaway
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2014, 01:40:06 AM »
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F Sony. It seems they are going to bring out a curved sensor which will probably mean new lenses AGAIN. If weight is an issue, go with Fuji.

My, my - how our are biases is showing. Even a potential positive development and certainly a technological achievement is used to attack Sony. Are you that insecure  or does it just seem that way ?

Looking at things with some logic, new technology that requires new lens development is much more likely on a fixed lens camera than to totally disrupt a new and developing market. On the Sony range this would potentially mean replacements for the RX100, RX10 and even the RX1. Or perhaps in the slightly longer term several fixed lens MF cameras is possible but not a good place to jump in with new technology straight off.

As to the original question. As this is a Photokina year it is likely that both Nikon and Sony will release improved versions of existing cameras so if you don't need to make an immediate decision then I would suggest you wait and see for 3 to 4 months. Who knows Canon or Nikon may introduce their own large sensor cameras. I would suggest that that is more probable than that Sony is going to junk overnight its existing inter changeable lens families.

If you do need to make a decision the yes the A7 is a decent camera which has the potential to get decidedly better in the future. Prices are dropping so it may cost you little more than a high end APS camera. The latest prices I saw were about $100 to $120 more than the Fuji if you look around. Personally I went for the A7r, but I use it more in the way I would use a MF camera rather than a traditional 35mm.
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Ed B
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2014, 02:36:06 AM »
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My, my - how our are biases is showing. Even a potential positive development and certainly a technological achievement is used to attack Sony. Are you that insecure  or does it just seem that way ?

Looking at things with some logic, new technology that requires new lens development is much more likely on a fixed lens camera than to totally disrupt a new and developing market. On the Sony range this would potentially mean replacements for the RX100, RX10 and even the RX1. Or perhaps in the slightly longer term several fixed lens MF cameras is possible but not a good place to jump in with new technology straight off.


It has nothing to do with "insecurity" as you say, don't read something that isn't there. I want to like Sony but they have no vision, they bring out body after body and ignore lenses. Canon, Nikon, Oly, Fuji, they have systems, Sony is a toilet, they flush everything when they change their mind and go in a different direction.

I considered Sony when looking at mirrorless but went with Fuji instead and I'm glad I did. I'll stick with Canon and Fuji, world class lenses and a dedication to the system. Sony is like owning a boat, a hole you throw money into. If that's bias, so be it. I don't think it is.
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Herbc
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2014, 10:57:14 AM »
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Sony has a number of good options.  If you want FF, A7 or A7r, or RX1(R).  For APS-C,
I had a Nex7, wish I had not sold it.  Made gallery prints from handheld shots with the Zeiss 24mm lens.

The A6000 looks nice as well
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scooby70
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2014, 06:12:52 PM »
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It has nothing to do with "insecurity" as you say, don't read something that isn't there. I want to like Sony but they have no vision, they bring out body after body and ignore lenses. Canon, Nikon, Oly, Fuji, they have systems, Sony is a toilet, they flush everything when they change their mind and go in a different direction.

I considered Sony when looking at mirrorless but went with Fuji instead and I'm glad I did. I'll stick with Canon and Fuji, world class lenses and a dedication to the system. Sony is like owning a boat, a hole you throw money into. If that's bias, so be it. I don't think it is.

You're kidding right?

They're possibly the most innovative of the mainstream camera makers and new lenses are coming... and in the meantime should you wish to do so you can mount more lenses on an A7/x body than just about any other camera on sale.
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scooby70
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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2014, 06:16:03 PM »
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fatigued by the weight of the D3, lens and accessory to some, I'm thinking the Sony A7 as a possible solution for the non-specific occasions or at the street. We get back as much quality of the files?

I went for the A7 as I decided that as 12mp was quite enough for me 24mp would be enough too.

I use old Zuiko and Rokkor lenses on mine but even so I have to say that it's the best camera I've ever owned. If the quality of the files is a worry I'm pretty sure that there will be images taken with whatever lens you're interested in somewhere on the net just waiting for you to download and examine.
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Paul Roark
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2014, 11:04:34 PM »
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I used to haul a full Rollei SL66 outfit on High Sierra backpacks.  Now I take the Sony A7R with the Zeiss 35 and a Leica 75mm f/2.5 on trips.  That's it, and I easily outshoot the SL66 outfit in most respects.  Before the Sony, I'd moved from medium format Tech Pan to Canon 5D2 to Leica M9.  In terms of wall display quality with a 24" printer, the Sony beats them all, in my view.  With the built-in level and grid lines, the percentage of stitched pans that work is higher than the M9, and successful, hand held pans is very important to me.

It's definitely not a perfect camera.  Among other things, none of my Leica/Zeiss M-mount wide angles work well on it, but the Zeiss 35 is so good, and stitching so successful, that I don't much miss the Leica superwides.  Still, "wide angle" microlenses, not to mention a smoother shutter, and better menu system (and much more) would be nice.

I'm just starting to post a few from my latest trip -- Italy -- at http://www.paulroark.com/Italy.html .  I have no regrets in moving to the Sony and hope to see better versions as soon as possible.

Good luck in your effort to save weight.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

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Ed B
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2014, 09:26:19 PM »
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You're kidding right?

They're possibly the most innovative of the mainstream camera makers and new lenses are coming... and in the meantime should you wish to do so you can mount more lenses on an A7/x body than just about any other camera on sale.

Nope.

Sony is good at sensors but little else. Bad menus, constantly changing mounts, no lenses....I find very little innovation in camera design from Sony. Just because the 7 series is small isn't enough innovation as far as I'm concerned, Fuji does it better and actually listens to their customers.
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ripgriffith
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2014, 03:20:47 PM »
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I really understand the drive to save weight; the older I get (I'm in my late 70s), the more my rotator cuffs complain.  I have seriously considered the Sony A7, but full frame is full frame, small body or not, therefore any quality lens is going to be big and heavy.  With my current Sony A65, which is not a particularly heavy camera, every good lens I have puts it over 1 kilo in weight, enough to get very tiring by the end of a long shooting day  (I really don't envy you guys lugging around top-of-the-line full-frame Canons and Nikons).  I keep the  A65 for when I really need the dynamic range, but for my day-to-day shooting, I have settled on micro 4/3rds; my Panasonic GF1 or G2 with lens comes in at about 1/3 the weight of my Sony.
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peterottaway
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2014, 07:10:40 PM »
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Nope.

Sony is good at sensors but little else. Bad menus, constantly changing mounts, no lenses....I find very little innovation in camera design from Sony. Just because the 7 series is small isn't enough innovation as far as I'm concerned, Fuji does it better and actually listens to their customers.

Simply repeating your mantra doesn't make it true. Just because Sony has a different menu structure to your beloved is neither here nor there. Even if you consider the A mount as a legacy mount they have continued to support it and not just dump it like some including Fuji.

If you want to make your point then fine - just do it in a somewhat rational manner.









 
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OnyimBob
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« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2014, 07:30:37 AM »
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Well, I mastered the menu system after a week or so. I use only one lens (FE 28-70).
And, as far as I'm concerned the A7R is my perfect camera. I am completely satisfied with the images it produces for me.
Stick with your Fuji.
Bob.
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Martin Ranger
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« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2014, 09:48:24 AM »
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I am sure the Sonys are great cameras, but as of this moment micro-4/3 and (to a lesser extent) Fuji have a much larger (and better) lens selection. If you are happy with manual focus, the A7 is great, but for street and general shooting you might want some AF lenses and as fast a AF system you can get. Of course in the future Sony may increase their lens selection, but I don't think it is a good idea to buy a camera based on what may or may not happen. In terms of image quality, the Sonys are superior, but I would argue the image quality of both the Fujis and m-4/3 is good enough for most applications.
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Martin Ranger
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PeterAit
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« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2014, 02:24:48 PM »
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I have settled on micro 4/3rds; my Panasonic GF1 or G2 with lens comes in at about 1/3 the weight of my Sony.

Yes, the G2 system is a real winner - and upgrading to the G3 takes you from 12 to 16MP.
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Peter
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Ed B
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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2014, 09:11:37 PM »
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Simply repeating your mantra doesn't make it true. Just because Sony has a different menu structure to your beloved is neither here nor there. Even if you consider the A mount as a legacy mount they have continued to support it and not just dump it like some including Fuji.

If you want to make your point then fine - just do it in a somewhat rational manner.

My reasons are perfectly rational. If you like throwing your money at planned obsolescence, go right ahead. It makes me wonder who isn't rational? Fuji is also bringing out outstanding lenses at an incredible pace, that shows a dedication to the system to me.

I shoot Canon as well, lets see if Sony has a lens mount that lasts 25 years or in Nikon's case, even longer. I doubt it.
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David Anderson
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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2014, 09:34:09 PM »
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I shoot Canon as well, lets see if Sony has a lens mount that lasts 25 years or in Nikon's case, even longer. I doubt it.

Is that what we want ?
Looking at my older shots from lenses gone by (Canon, Nikon and Blad) and don't see anything particularly stand-out compared to the latest & greatest.
I also don't see either Sony or Fuji as an alternative to a Nikon or Canon system for professional photography based purely on range, but both are making strong arguments for change in the future.

For personal work Either Sony or Fuji, and no doubt a few of the there would be fine.




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peterottaway
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« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2014, 10:54:48 PM »
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I shoot Canon as well, lets see if Sony has a lens mount that lasts 25 years or in Nikon's case, even longer. I doubt it.
[/quote]

Well actually the first camera to take the Minolta A mount was introduced in 1985 replacing the older manual focus SR mount. So the A mount has been around longer than the current Canon AF lens mount. It was originally designed for in body AF and later modified with the SSM  and SAM motor drives depending largely on lens price. Just like the Canon EOS mount had in-lens stabilization in a number of different versions added later on.

Not that it matters much to me.
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F2bthere
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« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2014, 04:43:36 PM »
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I'm surprised at the heat this conversation is generating Smiley.

I think it is fair to say that Fuji has demonstrated a strong commitment to the X System in terms of continuing to evolve the system, publishing and executing a lens roadmap which keeps adding outstanding lenses, fixing the problems users complain about and giving free firmware upgrades to give these features even two years later (best in the industry on this front). The Fuji system will take all the manual focus capable legacy lenses, too. It also produces such good JPEG files right out of the camera (and allows you to generate them from raw files in camera), significantly speeding workflow to finished images.

Admittedly, 4/3s was mostly abandoned, but the lenses still work reasonably well on some micro4/3s models. There is a full range of compatible lenses, some of which are outstanding.

Sony has indeed been innovative, but buying into their camera and lenses means you have a high probability of being stuck with lenses which are hard to sell as Sony changes direction again and abandons those who bought into the last system.  Our local dealer had at least as many Sony lenses in the used case as Nikon or Canon. Given the short time Sony has been out, this is a bad sign. Fuji and micro4/3 lenses don't last in the used case.

I think it is helpful to warn new users that with Sony there is a good chance you will end up with an orphan system in a short time frame. If you are only going to buy one lens or plan to use legacy glass, no problem. If you plan to build a system, think twice.
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