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Author Topic: ColorTRUE and CamRanger  (Read 1504 times)
keith_cooper
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« on: June 15, 2014, 07:49:40 AM »
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When I first looked at X-Rite's ColorTRUE system for gaining some form of display colour management for my iPad, I must say that my reaction was a bit "nifty idea, but so what?". I don't really use an iPad for anything that needs an accurate display...

However, I recently got hold of a CamRanger wireless control unit for my 1Ds3 and 100D, and discovered that the app that controls it on my iPad works with ColorTRUE.

It's quick to set up and found the i1 Pro 2 plugged into my Mac straight away.

Anyway I've written up some notes and observations about its use if anyone is curious

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/profiling/colortrue_camranger.html

The difference isn't astounding in colour rendition, but the profiled version does limit the crushed near whites and blacks that my unadjusted iPad seems to display.

Anyone else tried out ColorTRUE recently?

PS Does anyone have a use for the soft proofing option in the X-Rite ImageGallery viewing app?


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digitaldog
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« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2014, 10:42:49 AM »
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I guess it depends on what you expect this product to do. Calibrate the iPad? Nope. It makes it look better than before, but in no way does it get even close to matching the calibrated display I have that matches my output. Not close at all, not with only two white point settings. Such a waste too. If X-rite had simply provided a slider for WP to adjust visually to another display or output, it might have been useful. Now it's a tool that simply makes the output on the iPad look 'better' but in no way insures a match to anything, the reason most of us calibrate a display in the first place. Another miss from X-rite IMHO but the price is right!
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Andrew Rodney
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keith_cooper
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2014, 01:27:30 PM »
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Given that most people setting up a monitor are quite happy to choose D65, I'd suggest that the D50/D65 choice is not unreasonable.

The product is (AFAIK) not aimed at someone who would go to the lengths of setting a specific WB, and if you did, would you really be using an iPad for colour critical work? I have rather higher spec kit for that ;-)

I've never bothered with anything other than D65 on my MacBook Pro for example, and I'd be happy if the iPad got close to that. I can see who X-Rite is aiming this particular (free) product at and it ticks quite a few boxes.

ColorTRUE at least makes a start -  I too would like some more advanced functionality, but I don't for one moment think I'd seriously make use of much of it on an iPad?

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digitaldog
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2014, 01:35:21 PM »
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Given that most people setting up a monitor are quite happy to choose D65, I'd suggest that the D50/D65 choice is not unreasonable.
Only if you incorrectly assume all products set to D50 produce the same color appearance from the device. They absolutely do not. That's why better products have provisions for any manner of custom white point settings. To produce a visual match among dissimilar devices.
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The product is (AFAIK) not aimed at someone who would go to the lengths of setting a specific WB, and if you did, would you really be using an iPad for colour critical work? I have rather higher spec kit for that ;-)
The product should provide the means to match something and it doesn't. It is as simple as that. I'm not saying it's impossible that some user will not see a match, the likelihood is remote and the product has zero provisions for those who, like me, see a huge visual mismatch between the device ColorTRUE (a misnomer of a name by far) is supposed to match!
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I've never bothered with anything other than D65 on my MacBook Pro for example, and I'd be happy if the iPad got close to that.
I suggest you try it with this product and tell us how it works for you. Can you match the Macbook to the iPad?
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ColorTRUE at least makes a start
No, it's current implementation is a non starter on this end. It failed to do what it was supposed to do, calibrate the device to match something else I'm aiming for (and hitting).
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Andrew Rodney
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keith_cooper
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2014, 02:08:47 PM »
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It seems that your requirements are indeed well above what it offers... ;-)

I'd still maintain that for most people who get a monitor calibrator, the idea of setting a custom WB is way beyond what they will ever use. The whole idea of altering WB to get any form of match is vastly beyond the perceived needs of most owners of such kit.

An image (with an embedded profile) displayed on the iPad does at least look more consistent and broadly similar to my MacBook - an improvement, even if not up to everyone's needs - but to be honest, better is better, and I'm just not that concerned... It's my iPad after all.

I calibrated my wife's iPhone (mine is too old) and it too looks 'better'  ;-)

Time to offer some input for any (paid for) 'pro' version perhaps?


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digitaldog
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2014, 02:16:33 PM »
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It seems that your requirements are indeed well above what it offers... ;-)
I'd still maintain that for most people who get a monitor calibrator, the idea of setting a custom WB is way beyond what they will ever use. The whole idea of altering WB to get any form of match is vastly beyond the perceived needs of most owners of such kit.
So in your mind, the product is a success and it's OK for the masses even if it doesn't do what it's supposed to do and even if the masses find the iPad and all their other calibrated devices do not match? Why calibrate anything in the first place?
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2014, 02:18:00 PM »
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PS Does anyone have a use for the soft proofing option in the X-Rite ImageGallery viewing app?
Yes, it's yet another marketing based "solution" in search of a problem.
Did you ask X-rite what it's supposed to do that's useful?
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Andrew Rodney
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keith_cooper
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2014, 02:19:58 PM »
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Yes, it's yet another marketing based "solution" in search of a problem.
Did you ask X-rite what it's supposed to do that's useful?
Yes, but answer came there none ;-)

See, we do agree about some aspects ;-)
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digitaldog
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« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2014, 02:21:38 PM »
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Yes, but answer came there none ;-)
Another example of fine X-rite software engineering and development. Meanwhile, i1P, the flagship product lingers and rots on the vine. Great.
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Andrew Rodney
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keith_cooper
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« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2014, 02:36:59 PM »
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So in your mind, the product is a success and it's OK for the masses even if it doesn't do what it's supposed to do and even if the masses find the iPad and all their other calibrated devices do not match? Why calibrate anything in the first place?

It's a start (and one with imperfections) - however most people calibrating monitors, for example, give absolutely no thought to device matching whatsoever.  That's why many would happily use a ColorMunki Smile.

Now we may choose to decry this or say that they have at least made a step towards better colour?

As to why calibrate anything? The likes of us tell people that it's 'a good thing' ;-)
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digitaldog
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« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2014, 03:17:54 PM »
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That's why many would happily use a ColorMunki Smile.
Another example of quite good hardware, driven by pretty awful software despite very good color science behind the product.
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Andrew Rodney
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Tim Lookingbill
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« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2014, 04:09:44 PM »
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Can someone here show us what "a huge mismatch" looks like by posting a photo of this mismatch so we know just how useless this product is?

I thought Keith did a nice job of at least providing photos of before and after calibration of the iPad which seems to only show a WB change and maybe slight color matrix errors in certain color patches of the CC chart. More helpful would be to show a calibrated reference display (not the MacBook) to the calibrated iPad both displaying an identical image of a real scene containing a variety of real colored objects, not just an Xrite CC target.

I don't have an iPad nor an iPhone so I won't be finding a use for the product, but I appreciate Keith's exhausting efforts at including quite a bit of well organized and detailed info in his reviews.
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keith_cooper
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« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2014, 05:09:17 PM »
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The best way to see such a comparison would be to use the display app with a known test image, since the CamRanger only applies colour management to displayed images, not live view or the interface elements, that and I've no idea how they are decoding my camera RAW file, so we have quite a chain of intangibles in the mix ;-)

The ColorTRUE app is also available for Android devices if anyone would like to try the experiment?
 
I'm quite likely to be using the CamRanger with my MacBook Pro rather than the iPad, which is somewhat more accurate anyway (if I don't move my head), and has CS6 on it. The main advantage of having ColorTRUE on the iPad with the CamRanger app was actually that it opened up shadows and highlights in viewed files (and warmed the image a bit). The colour management could be up to super whizzo category and it still wouldn't make that much more of a difference to my photography.

I suppose that a lot depends on what you want/expect from different types of kit, and how it meets your particular needs.

PS Glad the articles are of interest!

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lhodaniel
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« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2014, 05:10:39 PM »
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Let me add my X-rite gripe. I have an Ipad Mini and a Camranger. I bought the i1 Extreme bundle not that long ago just before the 2 came out. Would it kill X-rite to support the i1 Pro 1 ? This is a professional product that cost (for me) quite a bit, and I'm irritated that support is dropped in such a cavalier manner. So, this "free" app for me means at least a $200+ investment to get a Display Pro or much more to upgrade to Pro 2.

Lloyd
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digitaldog
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« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2014, 05:58:07 PM »
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Can someone here show us what "a huge mismatch" looks like by posting a photo of this mismatch so we know just how useless this product is?
Someone could but that's just a huge waste of time. Someone should show the product doing what it says it can do! Calibrate the iPad after which it should visually match your main display which should visually match your output if that's your final output. I suggested Keith do this with his Macbook to add to that exhausting effort to review the product. It doesn't work for me, that's enough as far as I'm concerned. Let's see it work for Keith or someone else. That might be worth posting a 'photo' of the two. No reason for me to shoot two display's that don't get close to matching despite the promise of the product. I think I can evaluate a mismatch between two display systems previewing the same RGB numbers Tim!

I didn't make this up, X-rite did:
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ColorTRUE is the free color management app that delivers true desktop to tablet and phone screen matching from X-Rite Pantone, the global leader in color calibration and profiling. Now, no matter where you are, you can show your photos with absolute confidence knowing they are completely color accurate.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2014, 05:59:16 PM »
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I suppose that a lot depends on what you want/expect from different types of kit, and how it meets your particular needs.
I expect the product to deliver what it claims to deliver and so should you:
Quote
ColorTRUE is the free color management app that delivers true desktop to tablet and phone screen matching from X-Rite Pantone, the global leader in color calibration and profiling. Now, no matter where you are, you can show your photos with absolute confidence knowing they are completely color accurate.
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Andrew Rodney
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keith_cooper
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« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2014, 06:36:14 PM »
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Yes, the marketing copy can be a bit excessive - I try not to read too much of it  ...it can easily lead to a touch of the vapours ;-)






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Some Guy
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« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2014, 11:34:49 PM »
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I am using ColorTRUE with a Samsung Tab 3 (10.1" screen) with Android.  The calibrator I used was the i1 Display Pro.  I have their Colormunki Photo as well as the i1 PhotoPro 2 and niether will support it as it takes too much power form the USB port to run those two larger devices.  So I had to buy the smaller i1 Display Pro as it takes less power to run it.  Also had to buy some Samsung adapter cable to go from their mini-micro USB to the USB on the i1 Display Pro.

It does lighten up the shadows quite a bit and that's the best part of it if you have a very contrasty screen.  However the color red seems to be muted more with it than not.  I like the Samsung's OEM contrast too over the ColorTRUE as well.

Most of the time I leave it off though.

Aside for Keith Cooper:
Have you redone the B&W scans on your site for use with the newer i1 PhotoPro 2 software and newest Colorport?  Seems if I run your 21-steps in Colorport it won't do all 21 steps as it is looking for a second column.  I get about 18 is all in first row, then 3 in second column that are not read.  Haven't gotten any of the test images in your download to work right as yet.

Also, the newest iProfilier (v1.5.4) seems to have some issues reading a B&W step-wedge.  If you do a scan of the whites, and then do a spot reading of the same whites, they are different - by a lot too!  Maybe 8 points in Lab.

SG
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Czornyj
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« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2014, 02:36:19 AM »
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I've never bothered with anything other than D65 on my MacBook Pro for example, and I'd be happy if the iPad got close to that. I can see who X-Rite is aiming this particular (free) product at and it ticks quite a few boxes.
So did you get a match between iPad/iPhone and a MBP @D65? I wasn't that lucky.

Can someone here show us what "a huge mismatch" looks like by posting a photo of this mismatch so we know just how useless this product is?
You'd need sort of multispectral camera to make such a photo.

It does lighten up the shadows quite a bit and that's the best part of it if you have a very contrasty screen
It may be a best part if you're working in bright surround/outdoors -  otherwise it may get worse. There's an Ambient Compensation option, but it doesn't really work.
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keith_cooper
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« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2014, 03:31:45 AM »
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Aside for Keith Cooper:
Have you redone the B&W scans on your site for use with the newer i1 PhotoPro 2 software and newest Colorport?  Seems if I run your 21-steps in Colorport it won't do all 21 steps as it is looking for a second column.  I get about 18 is all in first row, then 3 in second column that are not read.  Haven't gotten any of the test images in your download to work right as yet.

Also, the newest iProfilier (v1.5.4) seems to have some issues reading a B&W step-wedge.  If you do a scan of the whites, and then do a spot reading of the same whites, they are different - by a lot too!  Maybe 8 points in Lab.

Can you email me directly (email addr. on the Northlight site) with more precise details about what you are actually doing?

A 21 or 51 step wedge is incorporated into the new B&W test image too, and I used it during testing with ColorPort (after importing the targets). It all works fine here, so I'm keen to see what's going wrong (tested using ColorPort 2.0.5 under OSX 10.6 and 10.9  - I've never tested anything under Windows.)

The 4 xml target files for ColorPort all seem OK, but they were updated not long after the article was originally published (2012)
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/bw_printing/bw-print-correction.html

The profiler info is interesting too - can you also let me know what it is you are doing? I normally use just Colorport for the ramps, and have not tried with i1P for quite a while.
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