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Author Topic: Eye-One GMB ProfileMaker vs MonacoProfiler  (Read 4796 times)
Hermie
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« on: September 19, 2005, 05:27:16 AM »
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I recently upgraded my old Colorsavvy CM2C colorimeter to Eye-One spectro (without UV cut filter).

For testing purposes I took my Epson R800. This R800 was one of those devices suffering from dark prints when used with Epson's profiles. A custom profile with the CM2C took care of this and additionally the smudging that came with the original Epson profiles was very much gone.

I used the I-Match TC9.18 target (2 pages, 918 patches, measured it 3 times, checked DeltaE (in MeasureTool) and when everything was OK I averaged the measurements and created the profile with GMB Profilemaker. When evaluating the new profile I immediately noticed that smudging was back again (especially in dark hair/skin/foliage) !
Smudging was worse with rel.col. intent than with perceptual.

Next I used MonacoProfiler to create a profile (on basis of 729 patches, also measured 3 times and averaged after DeltaE was OK), and guess what, smudging was gone again.

I opened one of the problem images in ColorThink and noticed that the problem colors lie outside the printer's gamut. This explains why the smudging with rel.col. intent was worse (gamut clipping) compared to perceptual (gamut compression).

Anyone ever seen this before?

Herman
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2005, 09:07:23 AM »
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I opened one of the problem images in ColorThink and noticed that the problem colors lie outside the printer's gamut. This explains why the smudging with rel.col. intent was worse (gamut clipping) compared to perceptual (gamut compression).
If you're trying to print out-of-gamut colors, why would you expect anything but problems? You're trying to turn up the volume to 12 when the knob only goes to 10. The best way to deal with out-of-gamut colors is to bring them into gamut yourself before attempting to print. An intelligent human can do this better than a simple algorithm.
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Hermie
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2005, 01:03:08 PM »
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If you're trying to print out-of-gamut colors, why would you expect anything but problems? You're trying to turn up the volume to 12 when the knob only goes to 10. The best way to deal with out-of-gamut colors is to bring them into gamut yourself before attempting to print. An intelligent human can do this better than a simple algorithm.
OK Jonathan, but apparently the Monaco algorithm does a better job than GMB's in bringing out of gamut colors to the printer's space.

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Anyone ever seen this before?
I meant, has anyone seen such as difference in smudging between profiles created with GMB ProfileMaker and MonacoProfiler?

Herman
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pfigen
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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2005, 01:41:33 PM »
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Hermie,

Did you build out profiles with all the different options in ProfileMaker? Even though Gretag claims the Colorful/Classic, etc options only affect Perceptual rendering intent, Relative is actually affected too.

Some people have reported that they think Monaco does a better job of smoothing than Gretag, which also may account for the differences.
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Hermie
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2005, 02:14:58 PM »
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Hermie,

Did you build out profiles with all the different options in ProfileMaker? Even though Gretag claims the Colorful/Classic, etc options only affect Perceptual rendering intent, Relative is actually affected too.

Some people have reported that they think Monaco does a better job of smoothing than Gretag, which also may account for the differences.
Yes pfigen, I tried all perceptual options, Colorful, Chroma Plus, Classic.

I just took a look at the R800 (918 patches) profile that came with Andrew Rodney's book. This one doesn't exhibit the smudging I was talking about (my guess is that Andrew used the ICColor).

Thanks

Herman
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2005, 08:49:17 PM »
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OK Jonathan, but apparently the Monaco algorithm does a better job than GMB's in bringing out of gamut colors to the printer's space.
It's not something I find particularly relevant; IMO that's your responsibility to deal with, not the profile's. Smoothing the gamut edge transition can make mildly out-of-gamut colors print more gracefully, but that comes at the cost of an overall decrease in color accuracy for colors that are within gamut, but close to the edge. There is no free lunch. If a color is within gamut, I don't want it being munged around to make room for colors that are not in gamut; I just want it to print as-is with no adulteration.
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