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Author Topic: Heavy Metal by Kevin Raber  (Read 5699 times)
Fine_Art
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« Reply #80 on: July 05, 2014, 05:45:58 PM »
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I have to wonder what's the point of compering 19th century technology with 21st one?

Did you read the post?
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #81 on: July 05, 2014, 06:29:02 PM »
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Did you read the post?

Although this is a condescending question, I will answer it: yes, I did. A question like this presupposes that I either

- post carelessly and mindlessly, without reading first what I am posting about, or
- I did read, but wasn't capable of grasping the point that you so obviously stated

So, once again, the question is: what is the point of of compering 19th century technology with 21st one? To show the superiority (in terms of its human aspect) of the latter? Well, duh! That Japanese managerial and engineering philosophy of the 20th and 21st century is superior to their (and our) 19th century one? Well, duh!

The beauty and significance of the 19th and early 20th century engineering is to be seen within their respective centuries' ethos, not today standards. Compared with 18th century and earlier, it was a magnificent progress for the humanity, even with its child labor and 16-hour workdays. It was a historic step that enabled us to have the politically correct engineering of today.

So, yes, depending whether you see a glass as half-full or half-empty, you can see such machinery as a symbol of child labor or a symbol of humanity's historic progress. Or both, as most sensible people do, depending on context.

Not to mention that, with a keen and discerning eye, you can see beauty in almost anything.
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Slobodan

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« Reply #82 on: July 05, 2014, 08:13:51 PM »
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Although this is a condescending question, I will answer it: yes, I did. A question like this presupposes that I either

- post carelessly and mindlessly, without reading first what I am posting about, or
- I did read, but wasn't capable of grasping the point that you so obviously stated

So, once again, the question is: what is the point of of compering 19th century technology with 21st one? To show the superiority (in terms of its human aspect) of the latter? Well, duh! That Japanese managerial and engineering philosophy of the 20th and 21st century is superior to their (and our) 19th century one? Well, duh!

The beauty and significance of the 19th and early 20th century engineering is to be seen within their respective centuries' ethos, not today standards. Compared with 18th century and earlier, it was a magnificent progress for the humanity, even with its child labor and 16-hour workdays. It was a historic step that enabled us to have the politically correct engineering of today.

So, yes, depending whether you see a glass as half-full or half-empty, you can see such machinery as a symbol of child labor or a symbol of humanity's historic progress. Or both, as most sensible people do, depending on context.

Not to mention that, with a keen and discerning eye, you can see beauty in almost anything.

I do not assume later works are better than earlier works. A lot of the best architecture we have was prior to modern engineering. Many towns in Europe have houses that have stood for centuries. It is very unlikely a typical house engineered today will last more than 50 years. That debate takes us far from the imagery of mid to late 20th century industry.

What is it that you see in industrial imagery? I think I outlined where it takes me.
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jfirneno
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« Reply #83 on: July 06, 2014, 03:26:56 PM »
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So, this is starting to make some sense.  I'm looking at the point of view that is unsympathetic to the "Heavy Metal" photo.  I think the following quotes explain the problem:

Ray, “For me, the associations that Heavy Metal invoke are of a Dickensian, child slavery environment, an ear-damaging, constant clatter of machinery, and a drab, mind-numbing  decor.”

Fine Art, “To me this image is a reminder of the lost humanity in many modern companies.”

Those unsympathetic with the subject matter are highly sympathetic for the various victims of the industrial revolution.  Because of this they cannot see the photo as anything but an indictment of man's inhumanity to man.  Possibly it would help if they looked at it as a case of man's inhumanity toward sewerage.  The true victims of modern plumbing are the microbes exposed to high levels of chlorine and oxygen.

It would be equally absurd for someone to look at a photo of a redwood forest and be unable to see anything sympathetic because of the time he went to a woods and caught poison ivy.

Regards,
John
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BradSmith
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« Reply #84 on: July 06, 2014, 05:02:08 PM »
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John,
You're absolutely right about the correct context of the waterworks image (assuming it needs a context).   I believe the Buffalo Waterworks is a part of the drinking water supply system.  About 25 years ago, I read an interesting book named "Risk Watch" that documented the history of "risk" to public health and human longevity.  It pointed out that the single most impactive advancement in human history regarding the mortality rate was the recognition that there were microorganisms in water that could cause disease/death.  And that "treatment" could kill or eliminate those microorganisms and eliminate the spread of those diseases. 

Water treatment - arguably the greatest single advancement in human history.

Brad

PS.....And now, maybe, can we return to photography?Huh   Please
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Isaac
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« Reply #85 on: July 07, 2014, 01:21:59 PM »
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What is it that you see in industrial imagery?

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Telecaster
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« Reply #86 on: July 07, 2014, 04:25:25 PM »
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I find many of the photos in Edward Burtynsky's book Water to be very beautiful even though some are, in a literal sense, documents of industrial pollution. And old buildings falling apart, rusting metal, crumbling pavement...love it.

-Dave-
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jjj
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« Reply #87 on: July 08, 2014, 11:52:37 AM »
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I do not assume later works are better than earlier works. A lot of the best architecture we have was prior to modern engineering.
TRANSLATION:A lot of the architecture I like was prior to modern engineering.
 Tongue

Quote
Many towns in Europe have houses that have stood for centuries. It is very unlikely a typical house engineered today will last more than 50 years.
I've lived in numerous old [European] houses and they may be still standing, but they certainly were not necessarily well built.
I currently live in a good solid Edwardian house and yet some of the brickwork at rear is simply dreadful and needed serious patching up when bath room was stripped back to the brick. Modern houses [in UK] certainly seem a lot better put together than many older ones, probably because building regs are more strict now.
Cowboy builders who do build crappy houses are certainly around, but are definitely not but a recent invention. Not to mention the large swathes of badly built buildings from ye good olde days that have been demolished because they were not fit for living in. Or need serious work doing to bring them up to decent [modern] conditions/standards.
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Isaac
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« Reply #88 on: July 08, 2014, 02:27:50 PM »
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I currently live in a good solid Edwardian house…

Please! The Coffee Corner.
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jjj
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« Reply #89 on: July 13, 2014, 12:38:49 PM »
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Really? Are you the Forum Police now, deciding what gets posted in threads? Also you a bit late with your daft comment as mine was simply following on from someone else's previous digression, if it was even that.
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Isaac
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« Reply #90 on: July 13, 2014, 12:59:47 PM »
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You're not responsible for "someone else's previous digression" just for your inconsiderate self-indulgence.
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jjj
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« Reply #91 on: July 24, 2014, 04:31:25 PM »
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Either you really do not understand how humans tend to converse Isaac or you are a complete numpty, who is simply doing his best to be rude and irritating.
Hard to tell which it is.
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Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
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