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Author Topic: Z3100 belt  (Read 1425 times)
kantx
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« on: July 09, 2014, 07:24:29 AM »
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I have a HP technician here replacing the belt on my Z3100 24", that was shredded.
Problem is the new belt (HP OEM part) is constantly jumping off the wheel of the tensioner.
He doesn't seem to find the cause.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2014, 08:03:33 AM »
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Could it be that the tensioner wheel used is a third party item?  The HP tensioner wheel has protrusion rings around the wheel where lengthwise grooves of the HP belt fit on. Third party "standard" toothbelts do not have that and you get a third party flat wheel (with flanges) for the flat side of the third party belt. That wheel may be too small for an HP belt. Either that or the other way around a third party flat belt on a HP wheel without flanges, the last a more likely candidate to get issues like described.



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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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kantx
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2014, 08:35:15 AM »
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No, Ernst.
All parts are genuine OEM, as said.
Finally, technician had to change some kind of a plastic guide somewhere that was weak.
Belt seems to run correctly now.
Another problem : upon restart, still have the infamous 86:01 error code (paper jam), signaling defective belt.
Technician says it might be solved with a soft reset from computer, reinitalizing/reinstalling all drivers, etc.
HP support on the phone says the same.
Hope it's not way of getting rid of me…
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Ian99
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2014, 09:46:35 AM »
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Finally, technician had to change some kind of a plastic guide somewhere that was weak.

On the Z3100 24" there is no plastic guide that can get weak.
The belt goes around a plastic wheel in the tension assembly; one side then gets wound through the guides on the underside of the carriage assembly; then finally the belt loops around a brass toothed wheel/gear on the motor shaft.

I suspect that the belt was (a) put on upside down; (b) the tension wheel not cleaned of crud from the old belt; or (c) not wound correctly under the carriage assembly.
But basically he told you BS.
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kantx
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2014, 10:13:07 AM »
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On the Z3100 24" there is no plastic guide that can get weak.
The belt goes around a plastic wheel in the tension assembly; one side then gets wound through the guides on the underside of the carriage assembly; then finally the belt loops around a brass toothed wheel/gear on the motor shaft.

I suspect that the belt was (a) put on upside down; (b) the tension wheel not cleaned of crud from the old belt; or (c) not wound correctly under the carriage assembly.
But basically he told you BS.

Now my problem is error code 86:01 is still there upon restart. He told me to perform a factory reset, which is impossible from HP utility. So far, I refused to pay their intervention until it works. They should call me back.
Any idea ?
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Justan
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2014, 12:51:46 PM »
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My z3100 had a similar problem with the belt after I replaced it. In my case I had not tightened the belt tensioner enough. According to hp should be fully tightened. Once i did this the problme was solved.

WRT the 86:01 error, given that this appears to have happened after a belt replacement and the related removal of a number of parts to do the replacement, my suggestion is to open up the printer and make sure that all power and data cables are fully seated. Remove and re-seat each one.

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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2014, 01:47:13 PM »
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Now my problem is error code 86:01 is still there upon restart. He told me to perform a factory reset, which is impossible from HP utility. So far, I refused to pay their intervention until it works. They should call me back.
Any idea ?

Service Mode is done from the printer panel. After a belt change you have to do several checks in that mode. The serviceman's job actually in my opinion. The Z3100 Service Manual should still be available through the Z3100 Wiki pages. Restarting the printer for its initialisation done?  If the printer does not know its position or the head carriage does not move at all then it could well think it has a paper jam. Does it actually leave the capping station side on the right? Does it get stuck at some point? Felt at the bottom of its travel route properly seated? Coding strip and travel sensor clean and giving signals?

Was there some packaging foil on the belt? I can not recall any plastic part that could get in the way. And yes, scraping crud from the drive wheel/gear should belong to the job too. I did that when I put new belts on 2 machines, wear will happen much faster if the teeth of gear and belt are not fully engaged.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.


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kantx
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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2014, 02:34:16 PM »
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Service Mode is done from the printer panel. After a belt change you have to do several checks in that mode. The serviceman's job actually in my opinion. The Z3100 Service Manual should still be available through the Z3100 Wiki pages. Restarting the printer for its initialisation done?  If the printer does not know its position or the head carriage does not move at all then it could well think it has a paper jam. Does it actually leave the capping station side on the right? Does it get stuck at some point? Felt at the bottom of its travel route properly seated? Coding strip and travel sensor clean and giving signals?

Was there some packaging foil on the belt? I can not recall any plastic part that could get in the way. And yes, scraping crud from the drive wheel/gear should belong to the job too. I did that when I put new belts on 2 machines, wear will happen much faster if the teeth of gear and belt are not fully engaged.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.




Head carriage moves freely from end to end but as said it clicks loudly on extreme left et extreme right, which it didn't do before.
After going one way slowly, then sliding all the way back faster, there's a bip and the red light goes on with 86:01 error code.

Belt was sealed in foiled plastic, delivered with instructions DVD.

I don't know how to reseat cables and connections. Should have been done correctly by technician (he worked 4 hours on it).
On first install, belt was jumping off guide, now it's not anymore.

Anyway, I sent them an email and refuse to pay until it works. If I give my car to change wheels and then cannot properly drive
with new wheels, what should I do ?
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2014, 05:35:36 PM »
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Decoder strip sensor does not work.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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kantx
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2014, 05:53:00 PM »
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What is it ?
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2014, 03:21:36 AM »
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Yesterday it was Holland versus Argentina so other mental skills were required.

Scan Axis Encoder strip and sensor. Look it up in the Service Manual.
http://z3100users.wikispaces.com/Z3100+docs

It is the film strip with grating on it that together with its sensor on the head carriage tells the printer where the head carriage is and how fast it moves or accelerates or not moves at all. If the head carriage jams on paper the printer notices the speed decrease that way. If it jams on both sides of the left right movement of the carriage it can make the same assumption. Possibly the process to calibrate the head carriage position was not done properly. Scan axis calibration is probably the HP manual term. Or the sensor does not deliver the signals to the mainboard (flat cables had to be disconnected for the belt replacement) or the encoder film strip is damaged/filthy/put in incorrectly (was that the plastic part in the way?) or the sensor is dirty/kaputt. Clean that strip with some glassex, check that it is straight and has no grating lost. Use the service mode to do the scan axis checks.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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kantx
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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2014, 12:06:24 PM »
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Yesterday it was Holland versus Argentina so other mental skills were required.

Scan Axis Encoder strip and sensor. Look it up in the Service Manual.
http://z3100users.wikispaces.com/Z3100+docs

It is the film strip with grating on it that together with its sensor on the head carriage tells the printer where the head carriage is and how fast it moves or accelerates or not moves at all. If the head carriage jams on paper the printer notices the speed decrease that way. If it jams on both sides of the left right movement of the carriage it can make the same assumption. Possibly the process to calibrate the head carriage position was not done properly. Scan axis calibration is probably the HP manual term. Or the sensor does not deliver the signals to the mainboard (flat cables had to be disconnected for the belt replacement) or the encoder film strip is damaged/filthy/put in incorrectly (was that the plastic part in the way?) or the sensor is dirty/kaputt. Clean that strip with some glassex, check that it is straight and has no grating lost. Use the service mode to do the scan axis checks.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
April 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

Sorry for the Oranje…

HP service confirmed :
- technician told craps : no software hard reset is possible
- I saw printer has not been reassembled properly : lateral grey partitions (left and  right) in front of panel were not even properly clipped,
and print cart is bumping on it !
- that moron didn't even take time to reinsert properly cartridges (they were just let dangling in their slot)
- so now back to HP, have to pay 700 VAT excl. for a proper full repair by their official service on site
- needless to say the moron will not have is invoice paid anytime soon
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kantx
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2014, 10:45:12 AM »
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OK, finally, HP came and fixed the printer.
Previous tech was a moron and reassembled the machine like a retard.
So now :
- after cleaning heads, calibration scan axis, etc., I have not the horizontal lines I had previously,
- but, there is another catch, instead of horizontal lines, I have now vertical bandings, very regular, 2 mm wide
HP techs suspects printing unit ("printing cart", in french "chariot d'impression"). He will be back and install a
new one.

Any advice ?
Cheers
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jasdown
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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2014, 11:32:14 AM »
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The Z3100 service manual states that IQ vertical banding can be caused by the need for lubrication to the Carriage Assembly (which is pulled along by the belt you just replaced). However, due to the fact that you have just replaced said belt assembly, I would hazard a guess that the necessary service calibrations were not completed after the belt installation. In other words, the manual states that the following calibrations should all be completed following belt replacement:
1. Carriage Assembly
2. Scan Axis Test
3. Line Sensor Calibration
4. Sensors
5. Reset Life Counters
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 11:35:00 AM by jasdown » Logged
kantx
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« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2014, 02:15:17 PM »
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The Z3100 service manual states that IQ vertical banding can be caused by the need for lubrication to the Carriage Assembly (which is pulled along by the belt you just replaced). However, due to the fact that you have just replaced said belt assembly, I would hazard a guess that the necessary service calibrations were not completed after the belt installation. In other words, the manual states that the following calibrations should all be completed following belt replacement:
1. Carriage Assembly
2. Scan Axis Test
3. Line Sensor Calibration
4. Sensors
5. Reset Life Counters

Thank you.
Carriage assembly has not been changed.
Following point 4.4 to 4.6 from Manual, I completed :
- Scan Axis Calibration
- Drop Detector Calibration
I'll try to do the rest and report back

Update
After an attempt to do Carriage Assembly test, when testing LS Max intensity, tolerance, I had error 55:11 : "Fail tolerance blue red green amber led out of limits"
Then it asked to press any key to shut down printer…
Will there be a day when it works fine again ?  Undecided

Update
HP will service again and change the whole carriage assembly for a new one, under repair warranty.
Hopefully this will finally solve it.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 03:01:43 AM by kantx » Logged
kantx
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2014, 04:24:33 AM »
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Still not solved.
After a visit by an official tech HP (not the lousy guys that first maintained the machine), HP discovered the job had been totally botched.
So they re-did everything and I put a set of new printheads and new ink carts. Nevertheless, banding problem is still there (see test in
attachment).
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jferrari
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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2014, 07:25:59 AM »
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Looks ink-starved. Check ink density and test again.
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No, I don't own one. But I have seen one on TV.
kantx
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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2014, 07:34:14 AM »
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In fact, I re-did a head calibration and it's finally ok. Ouch. First tech was a real crook. And HP tech has been spot on.
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foto_man
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2014, 03:44:16 PM »
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The print looks nice! Wink
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kantx
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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2014, 03:47:39 PM »
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Finally !
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