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Author Topic: Hasselblad CFV50c  (Read 14211 times)
Theodoros
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« Reply #120 on: August 15, 2014, 05:13:49 PM »
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Sorry, I have used them all, CF (MS), H3, H4 and now H5 and everytime HB did improve. The H5 is a joy to use. HB chose another route and for me at least it is working, so it is for many others. Even though I was not amused at first too! Now, I am glad with the H5 which I can put on most other cameras too if needed. If I want to use the V, I need to buy a CFV which is decently priced. What other mount would I want to have? Why would I want to be able to put my back onto a Mamiya/DF?

The whole concept of this system as being solely a back is a station passed a very long time ago.

I am not paying any attention anymore to HB marketing but the tools are very nice to use!

I think you completely missed the point... Nobody here says that your H5 isn't "a joy to use" ...my comments are on why people prefer other products than buying Hasselblad... although it's a "joy to use"! After all, you wouldn't miss a bit from the "joy of use" if the system was "open"...  Wink
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Dustbak
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« Reply #121 on: August 16, 2014, 01:34:41 AM »
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I think you completely missed the point... Nobody here says that your H5 isn't "a joy to use" ...my comments are on why people prefer other products than buying Hasselblad... although it's a "joy to use"! After all, you wouldn't miss a bit from the "joy of use" if the system was "open"...  Wink

I don't think so. The integrated approach HB took eventually led to the current line-up. I am not so sure it would have when they would have kept basing it upon the CF line... Anyway it is a moot point to discuss since history has led us elsewhere.

Mind you, I was a very vocal advocate for the CF line and the system being open. Just saying that I believe that where we are now just isn't that bad even though there are still areas that can/should be improved upon.

Just saying that there are also a lot of people buying because of this 'closed' and integrated concept.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 01:42:02 AM by Dustbak » Logged
Theodoros
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« Reply #122 on: August 16, 2014, 12:24:35 PM »
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I don't think so. The integrated approach HB took eventually led to the current line-up. I am not so sure it would have when they would have kept basing it upon the CF line... Anyway it is a moot point to discuss since history has led us elsewhere.

Mind you, I was a very vocal advocate for the CF line and the system being open. Just saying that I believe that where we are now just isn't that bad even though there are still areas that can/should be improved upon.

Just saying that there are also a lot of people buying because of this 'closed' and integrated concept.

Sooo... according to your opinion they should do nothing to improve their marketing position? ...They should just wait for the inevitable to happen? Do you expect V users to continue without WA photography? ...do you expect H3d users to change their cameras just to upgrade the back at sometime? Maybe H3-39Dii users should upgrade to a ...lunar?  ...The money is hardly enough (for a lunar) if they sell their H3-Ds on an Ebay listing... Well... I may be selling one of my C645 bodies and buy TWO "joys to use" instead... (but I won't). I guess if they finally die... they'll never admit they did anything wrong... It will be customers fault for not buying "joys to use" or Lunars... Guess what... my Contax 645 is NOT (Huh  Cool)  a "joy to use" ...but I'll stick with it (and my 528c back)!  Wink
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Dustbak
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« Reply #123 on: August 16, 2014, 04:56:56 PM »
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You should read what I write instead of trying to twist my words into something that obviously suits you better. I believe in my frist post I already mentioned I am not particularly impressed by HB marketing.

 I don't care what you do and I have no expectations whatsoever what other people might or should do. I simply do not completely agree with your opinion.
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eronald
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« Reply #124 on: August 16, 2014, 06:30:34 PM »
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You should read what I write instead of trying to twist my words into something that obviously suits you better. I believe in my frist post I already mentioned I am not particularly impressed by HB marketing.

 I don't care what you do and I have no expectations whatsoever what other people might or should do. I simply do not completely agree with your opinion.

Kids - play nice. Bash the cameras, bash the companies, but don't bash the other photographers.

Edmund
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Theodoros
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« Reply #125 on: August 17, 2014, 02:55:31 AM »
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Kids - play nice. Bash the cameras, bash the companies, but don't bash the other photographers.

Edmund
But Ed, nobody is bashing the cameras here... its rather some "marketing" stupid decisions that does it! What I would like to see is Hasselblad opening the system (along with their minds) and I am sure photographers will support them towards survival.  Smiley
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JoeKitchen
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« Reply #126 on: August 17, 2014, 06:52:53 AM »
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But Ed, nobody is bashing the cameras here... its rather some "marketing" stupid decisions that does it! What I would like to see is Hasselblad opening the system (along with their minds) and I am sure photographers will support them towards survival.  Smiley

I was speaking to a dealer recently and he told me that before Hassy closed the system, he sold more H systems by at least 10x then the DF+.  He has clients that still work with their H2s just because they want to keep that system. 

If Hassy opened the system, I am sure they would do well. 
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Joe Kitchen
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“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner
JV
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« Reply #127 on: August 17, 2014, 07:21:50 AM »
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If Hassy opened the system, I am sure they would do well. 

Not sure what you are talking about… the H4x is available at B&H and other stores and it takes the latest IQ and Credo backs… what is there to open up?
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JoeKitchen
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« Reply #128 on: August 17, 2014, 07:39:59 AM »
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Not sure what you are talking about… the H4x is available at B&H and other stores and it takes the latest IQ and Credo backs… what is there to open up?

The H5 maybe.  Hassy may sell a H4X, but are they really operating with an open mindset?  Until they start releasing all of their cameras as being open, they are not going to when many people over. 
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Joe Kitchen
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"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner
JV
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« Reply #129 on: August 17, 2014, 08:32:38 AM »
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The H5 maybe.  Hassy may sell a H4X, but are they really operating with an open mindset?  Until they start releasing all of their cameras as being open, they are not going to when many people over. 

Joe,

I have a so-called open configuration: H4X and P30+.  It is not ideal…

The older HC lenses are very well supported by Capture One, the newer lenses not so much…

These are the lenses that are officially supported by Capture One and for which Capture One will perform software corrections:  HC 2.2/100, HC 2.8/80, HC 3.2/150, HC 3.5-4.5/50-110, HC 3.5/35, HC 4/120, HCD 4/28

That is only 7 out of 12 lenses...  On top of that I was told by a respected member of this forum that the software corrections of C1 for the HCD 28 are a bit underwhelming compared to the ones of Phocus. 

If you spend $5-7K on a lens you would want it to be optimally supported, wouldn't you, and the reality is that Phocus would give you that and Capture One does not…

The so-called openness of Phase One might sound better in marketing than it is in reality…

Joris.


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eronald
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« Reply #130 on: August 17, 2014, 08:58:22 AM »
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Joe,

The so-called openness of Phase One might sound better in marketing than it is in reality…

Joris.




Color me surprised.

Although I wonder how many of the Phase One "open" users with a Hassy can actually be persuaded to downgrade to a Phamiya. And I wonder how many H-Phase users are willing to downgrade from C1 to Phocus.

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 09:07:43 AM by eronald » Logged
JoeKitchen
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« Reply #131 on: August 17, 2014, 09:08:33 AM »
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Joe,

I have a so-called open configuration: H4X and P30+.  It is not ideal…

The older HC lenses are very well supported by Capture One, the newer lenses not so much…

These are the lenses that are officially supported by Capture One and for which Capture One will perform software corrections:  HC 2.2/100, HC 2.8/80, HC 3.2/150, HC 3.5-4.5/50-110, HC 3.5/35, HC 4/120, HCD 4/28

That is only 7 out of 12 lenses...  On top of that I was told by a respected member of this forum that the software corrections of C1 for the HCD 28 are a bit underwhelming compared to the ones of Phocus.  

If you spend $5-7K on a lens you would want it to be optimally supported, wouldn't you, and the reality is that Phocus would give you that and Capture One does not…

The so-called openness of Phase One might sound better in marketing than it is in reality…

Joris.




I dont see how this relates to what I said.  

Hassy fully opening their system would still allow people to buy Hassy backs and use Phocus, if they so choose to.  But is would also allow for people who want to use P1 on a Hassy to do so as well more easily.  If C1 does not do as good of a job with Hassy's lenses as Phocus does, then that is something the purchaser needs to take into consideration when buying.  It is not a reason to prevent the system from being opened, since you would still be able to purchase Hassy backs and use Phocus, regardless. 
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 09:16:26 AM by JoeKitchen » Logged

Joe Kitchen
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"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent moving furniture."  Arnold Newman
“Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.”  William Faulkner
eronald
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« Reply #132 on: August 17, 2014, 09:46:28 AM »
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I dont see how this relates to what I said.  

Hassy fully opening their system would still allow people to buy Hassy backs and use Phocus, if they so choose to.  But is would also allow for people who want to use P1 on a Hassy to do so as well more easily.  If C1 does not do as good of a job with Hassy's lenses as Phocus does, then that is something the purchaser needs to take into consideration when buying.  It is not a reason to prevent the system from being opened, since you would still be able to purchase Hassy backs and use Phocus, regardless.  

The problem as I understand it is that Hassy were planning to turn their body into a dumb mirrorbox, and put most of the intelligence in their backs. Which was forward looking, as CMOS-based cameras can do main-sensor based focusing, live view etc, and thus don't really need a mirror. However, it does mean that they may have trouble in the future providing a body that can supply focusing signals etc, if they don't have their own back mounted. So basically they took a marketing decision based on forward-looking technical data that didn't translate into reality, and stranded their existing userbase. The part I don't understand is why they had to translate their technical roadmap into an announcement. What they should have done is indeed continue serving their existing customer base until the last possible moment. Hasselblad did a supercharged Osborne.

To put matters in context, Dalsa and Kodak promised a CMOS chip transition for ages, but in fact they never delivered on their promises, and gin fact there wouldn't be one if Sony hadn't jumped in for reasons that clearly have little to do with economics.

I think H have camera DNA, Phase have computer and commercial DNA, a mix would be nice for the users - but in the mean time which system you use depends on whether you prefer a better shooting experience or a better post experience or are prepared to put up with multiple vendor and integration issues.

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 06:26:50 AM by eronald » Logged
Theodoros
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« Reply #133 on: August 18, 2014, 09:07:39 AM »
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Not sure what you are talking about… the H4x is available at B&H and other stores and it takes the latest IQ and Credo backs… what is there to open up?

Now, where is that 200ms CF back for my Contax to replace my 528c? ...Never mind, Sinar makes an alternative with their E-xact!!!













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JV
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« Reply #134 on: August 18, 2014, 10:18:54 AM »
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Now, where is that 200ms CF back for my Contax to replace my 528c? ...Never mind, Sinar makes an alternative with their E-xact!!!


I can only imagine how much money Hasselblad must be missing out on by not making their 200MS back available in Contax mount...
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Theodoros
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« Reply #135 on: August 18, 2014, 11:38:50 AM »
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I can only imagine how much money Hasselblad must be missing out on by not making their 200MS back available in Contax mount...
I can only imagine how much money (and customers) they lost by stop selling all their backs to any other camera...  even their own H4X...
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #136 on: August 18, 2014, 12:34:51 PM »
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Hi,

My understanding was that Phase One originally wanted to acquire rights and tools for Contax 645. Would have been nice, but it did not work out. Phase makes a good job of building a system around the Mamiya platform they bought in to. But, the ideal marriage may have been Hasselblad and Phase One.

Best regards
Erik

The problem as I understand it is that Hassy were planning to turn their body into a dumb mirrorbox, and put most of the intelligence in their backs. Which was forward looking, as CMOS-based cameras can do main-sensor based focusing, live view etc, and thus don't really need a mirror. However, it does mean that they may have trouble in the future providing a body that can supply focusing signals etc, if they don't have their own back mounted. So basically they took a marketing decision based on forward-looking technical data that didn't translate into reality, and stranded their existing userbase. The part I don't understand is why they had to translate their technical roadmap into an announcement. What they should have done is indeed continue serving their existing customer base until the last possible moment. Hasselblad did a supercharged Osborne.

To put matters in context, Dalsa and Kodak promised a CMOS chip transition for ages, but in fact they never delivered on their promises, and gin fact there wouldn't be one if Sony hadn't jumped in for reasons that clearly have little to do with economics.

I think H have camera DNA, Phase have computer and commercial DNA, a mix would be nice for the users - but in the mean time which system you use depends on whether you prefer a better shooting experience or a better post experience or are prepared to put up with multiple vendor and integration issues.

Edmund

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eronald
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« Reply #137 on: August 18, 2014, 01:23:39 PM »
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Hi,

My understanding was that Phase One originally wanted to acquire rights and tools for Contax 645. Would have been nice, but it did not work out. Phase makes a good job of building a system around the Mamiya platform they bought in to. But, the ideal marriage may have been Hasselblad and Phase One.

Best regards
Erik


I have heard it said that mergers are like a certain game ... there's a "Mommy" and a "Daddy" in every merger, and some claim that "Mommy" doesn't get to enjoy the experience quite as much Smiley


Edmund
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 04:25:17 PM by eronald » Logged
EricWHiss
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« Reply #138 on: August 19, 2014, 01:36:22 AM »
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I'd like to see HB bring back the CF 528 in universal mount but modernized with either CMOS or the 50mp sensor.  I still use my CF 528 on my Rollei 6008AF.  Under the right conditions, that combo can produce a file that I think would stand up to anything you could throw at it - and amazingly that back was from 2004 !!    Yes Sinar still makes a micro step back with universal adapters, but its got no display and has to be tethered.   

But looking at the financials posted above you have to wonder how much patience Ventiz has?  How much of that loss was given up to the Lunar and the execs and product managers that birthed it?   



 
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orc73
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« Reply #139 on: August 19, 2014, 02:02:33 AM »
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Supporting users of the old V System with a brand new back with the latest MD Sensor is amazing.
Probably V System users want to keep in in a lower budget then somebody who buys a new IQ250 System.
I don't understand anybody complaining about something.
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