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Author Topic: Definition: "a partiality that prevents objective  (Read 7092 times)
ysengrain
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« on: October 03, 2005, 03:13:25 AM »
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I completly agree with Michael on every point.
We, human beings use to blend too often opinion and certainty.
Opinion is a personal statement, and Michael shares his "opinions" with us.
Certainty needs scientific proof.
Michael is a real good professional: when he states this lens is too soft, I trust him. He has more experience than I have.
I may disagree with himl, but I'll never say (state !!) he is biased.
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Ray
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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2005, 03:38:24 AM »
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Truth is, we're all biased to some degree, otherwise we wouldn't be human. Trouble is, some folks make no effort to be unbiased and objective; then brand loyalty becomes an issue like supporting a particular football team.
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Vashon
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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2005, 04:05:19 AM »
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Quote
Truth is, we're all biased to some degree, otherwise we wouldn't be human. Trouble is, some folks make no effort to be unbiased and objective; then brand loyalty becomes an issue like supporting a particular football team.
It's just plain old human intercourse. Some people are more knowledgeable, thoughtful and articulate than others. As Michael said, we all have assholes and opinions. To which I would add, `Even assholes have assholes and opinions.' And they deserve as much rope as they need to prove their own true nature to everybody else. After you've been around the block a time or two, it's easy enough to figure out who's who.
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lenelg
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2005, 05:35:02 AM »
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There is a well known psychological explanation for the reactions Michael describes, which goes under the label of "cognitive dissonance":

Making a significant decision under uncertainty - like deciding what DSLR to invest hard earned cash in - is a stressful experience for most of us. Once we have committed to a choice we only search out information which confirms that we made the right choice, and we are disturbed by anything which questions our decision, since that turns the stress back on..
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Ray
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2005, 07:06:41 AM »
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Once we have committed to a choice we only search out information which confirms that we made the right choice, and we are disturbed by anything which questions our decision, since that turns the stress back on..
This might apply to major decisions in life - a religion or a wife - but a camera? C'mon! How stressed can one be over a camera purchase? This is the sort of issue where it's very easy to be objective. If you can't be objective about camera performance, then I guess you can't be objective period.
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abaazov
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2005, 07:30:32 AM »
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you'd be surprised ray. many people crave a sort of "positive reinforcement" of their decisions, even at the level of camera purchases, from "experts".
but the real point is how can anyone tell michael he is biased, and at the same time prove they aren't?

amnon
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LeifG
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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2005, 07:32:14 AM »
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It's hard to criticise someone when they are providing a site with useful information and without charge of any kind. His reviews are interesting and useful, which is more than enough for me.

But if you want obvious bias, just check out the web sites of Mouse Peterson and (Chairman) Ken Rockwell.

Leif
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dturina
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2005, 08:10:22 AM »
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Some people seem to think that you have to be completely detached from something in order to be objective. As a corollary, this would imply that people are the greatest experts on things they have no experience with; basically, it's like saying that only your enemies can have a valid opinion on you, since your friends are biased. This, of course, is utter nonsense. Knowledge comes from familiarity. Of course Michael has a slight bias towards Canon. He has good experience with their stuff and it obviously proved itself, or he'd sell it. What's he expected to do - sell all his cameras and lenses? Regularly write a disclaimer saying "I hate all the equipment I use"? Bleh. People should read his review of the Kodak digital back, where he basically expected it to be crap, probably from the experience with their SLR camera, and ended up so impressed he actually bought one. I guess if Olympus manages to make a pro body as good as his Canon 1Ds, he'd praise it all over, but right now, I own E1 and like it, but if Olympus doesn't make something soon enough, I might regretfully buy into another, more expandable system. I'd do it reluctantly, though, because resolution and noise performance are really my only objections to E1, which is otherwise ideal for me.

BTW, did anybody notice that people on the Sony forum on dpreview actually praised Michael for the same article?
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Danijel
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2005, 09:47:00 AM »
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A bias can be negative. I may not like something for no good reason. And, a friend or enemy need not be biased to be a friend or enemy. In fact, it may be possible to have friends and enemies based on the same set of facts. I like liver and onions for exactly the same reason my son hates them - their taste.

Data and/or the one interpretting the data may be biased. A bias causes you to misinterpret the data in a particular direction. Assuming the data are correct, I think of a bias as I like (or dislike) something in spite of the data.
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Graeme Nattress
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2005, 11:20:32 AM »
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Bias, to me, is when you diss a camera because it's got a nameplate that reads "Nikon" not "Canon", or you love it, just because it's nameplate says "Nikon" rather than "Canon", regardless of what pictures the camera is capable of taking. It's not wrong to have opinions, and when you explain "why" you like or don't like something based upon some kind of reasoning that others can follow, that's not bias, but opinion. It's right to complain about the ergonomics of a camera (it's too small for my hands, buttons are too easy or too hard to press, or I have to do a vulcan neck pinch on 7 buttons simultaneously while reciting Dr Suess to get mirror lockup to function). When it comes to predicting the future, it's obviously just an educated guess, but then you've got to look at the experience and track record of the person making the guess.

Graeme
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HiltonP
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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2005, 11:35:37 AM »
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Quote
Quote
Once we have committed to a choice we only search out information which confirms that we made the right choice, and we are disturbed by anything which questions our decision, since that turns the stress back on..
This might apply to major decisions in life - a religion or a wife - but a camera? C'mon! How stressed can one be over a camera purchase?
Maybe not "stressful" in the "detrimental to your health" sense, but certainly significant . . .

The purchase of our dSLR was the largest outlay of cash for a single item in the last 7 years (bar the purchase of a motor car). If I look around our home the dSLR is the most expensive individual item except for my power wheelchair.

In light of that, the choice, and ultimate purchase of such a camera is indeed a stressful event. None of us want to buy items which turn out to be mistakes! . . .
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Regards, HILTON
Wil Hershberger
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2005, 01:26:11 PM »
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I totally agree with Michael on this.  I look to his reviews of equipment and software for the very reason that his opinions are un-biased.  Learned opinions yes, isn't that what we are all after?!!!

Wil Hershberger
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Gellman
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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2005, 01:58:38 PM »
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Michael,

Even though you are correct on all points in your bias article, you are definitely needing that thick skin to reference a pissing contest on the DP Review boards. It is hard to do so without getting your feet wet.

I mean, how does one respond to statements disparaging your opinions because "he isn't exactly YOUNG". Perhaps you should consider a little hair coloring and wrinkle remover. Also, it wouldn't hurt to start referring to manufacturing reps as "camera dudes" and camera companies as "the man".

Good luck!

John
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Ken Tanaka
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2005, 04:49:28 PM »
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Michael,
Following along with John and others' remarks on this thread I say... Bah!

Please don't waste your time and emotional energies rebutting Internet forum banter. It saddens me a bit when I see you do this, as I have at least once or twice in the past year or two. You need not offer and explanations or apologies for your opinions to that gang.

I know that I, and many others, read your remarks not as gospel but as merely records of your observations and opinions. That's also why I subscribe to your Video Journal. I don't have to agree with your every sentence, nor would I image that you would expect me to. I appreciate your taking time to intelligently share your thoughts in a manner far more considered than most photo board posts (which often read as if the poster wrote with his thumbs).

Don't succumb to needless distractions. Take pictures. Print pictures. Look at pictures. Read a good book. But don't waste time justifying your opinions with Internet photo boarders.
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Hank
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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2005, 10:38:50 AM »
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For me a person moves from opinion to bias when they become an apologist for their favorite.  With Michael's record of criticizing shortcomings regardless of brand, I don't think he could be labelled an apologist.  To me that's an acid test.
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