Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Sigma DP3M experiences  (Read 2269 times)
eronald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4260



« on: August 07, 2014, 12:50:04 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi guys,

 I just got a DP3M; I don't like the Quattro pix out there, and anyway the european price of 400E was just barely affordable as an impulse purchase. I sold my RX100 to buy this.

 After 15 minutes with the thing, my take is that texture rendering is quite exceptional, the lens is really really sharp, I mean ridiculously sharp, did I say sharp? This tiny thing runs rings around my Canon 1Ds3 and 85/1.2. I don't think it is quite in the category of my erstwhile Phamiya P45+, but then it's also a bit cheaper.

 Handheld use is ok in real daylight only and the shadows go noisy quite fast, focus is more than fast enough if you are used to MF. I tried ISO 800 indoors and got banding. No luck, this seems to be a low-ISO image-maker.

 The remarkable acuity of the sensor translates into environmental color reflections on your subject, even skin becomes a mirror. This is disconcerting. As "Cooter" would say the color is not global.

 Oh, and if you need to photograph your nearest and dearest feminine friend and she's over 25, just use a different camera if you value your life and the parts that bestow manhood Smiley I value mine enough not to publish my portrait test -  my usual retouching technique failed here.

 One item not covered in other reviews - if you get some sort of 52mm tele lenshood (I have an old Nikon screw/clip in) then you can wrap your left hand around the lens and the experience of holding the lens with your left and squeezing the large shutter button with your right index is  both stable and comfortable.

 The Sigma processing software is precisely as horrible as everybody says. The camera menu system sucks. The camera heats quickly. Build quality is mediocre. There is no in-camera stabilisation. However, did I say the low-ISO images are sharp? I mean really really sharp? And on the sample below you can see both the color of the sky and the deep shadows?

 It's amazing what $400 buys you these days. I mean the RX100 is good value for money at current pricing, but this close-out sale last year's model Sigma thing is not a compact, it's a *camera*. Even for us spoilt folks on the MF forum.

 I will follow up ...

 Attached 100% crop of default-processed file, handheld, late afternoon.

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 07:26:03 PM by eronald » Logged
Manoli
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 735


« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2014, 01:45:20 PM »
ReplyReply

Good to have your input, Edmund. Congratulations on the new acquisition. Not to temper your initial enthusiasm, but on my 'maiden voyage' with the DP3M earlier this year came across this - jpg below - any ideas what we call this,  surely not sensor bloom ?

When it comes to photographing the fairer sex, suggest you shoot, don't chimp and overexpose in post 3-4 stops. High key, minimum detail other than hair , eyes and lips ... they love it. [/light hearted quip]

M

Edit:
BTW, If you can't find an old 52mm screw-in hood, Sigma make a bayonet one just for the DP3M ... though they're probably harder to find !
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 03:42:09 PM by Manoli » Logged
eronald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4260



« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2014, 01:54:11 PM »
ReplyReply

Good to have your input, Edmund. Congratulations on the new acquisition. Not to temper your initial enthusiasm, but on my 'maiden voyage' with the DP3M earlier this year came across this - jpg below - any ideas what we call this,  surely not sensor bloom ?

When it comes to photographing the fairer sex, suggest you shoot, don't chimp and overexpose in post 3-4 stops. High key, minimum detail other than hair , eyes and lips ... they love it. [/light hearted quip]

M

Yes, I had sensor bloom on my first image, flower as well.
In my experience one needs to underexpose flowers at least 1 stop on Bayer sensors too, the metering is fooled. Flowers need to be treated very carefully, they can also have huge UV patterns which will probably help mess up many cameras.

Edmund
Logged
Manoli
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 735


« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2014, 02:18:02 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks for the input, Edmund.
Surprised to hear that you had a similar result with your first shot - any chance that this is a 'Foveon frailty' ? I don't shoot flowers, it was a 'run & gun' moment but interestingly, the same shot didn't fool the RX100 I was comparing it to.

M
Logged
eronald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4260



« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2014, 02:50:54 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks for the input, Edmund.
Surprised to hear that you had a similar result with your first shot - any chance that this is a 'Foveon frailty' ? I don't shoot flowers, it was a 'run & gun' moment but interestingly, the same shot didn't fool the RX100 I was comparing it to.

M

Every explanation is probably right Smiley I think it is metering, partly, and partly the fact that channel reconstruction is well understood with Bayer sensors. I know that I underexpose massively with my SLR as soon as I spot flowers in an image. The other thing is that flowers are just about the most saturated natural colors, and as such they will stress the color conversion algorithms in any piece of software which compresses what we see into a printable or displayable gamut. If badly done, the compression results in a saturated blob.

Edmund

PS For reference here is the fitting clip-on HS-8 Nikon lens hood buy page, much cheaper than the Sigma one; I think this is for an old Nikon 85/2.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 04:23:14 PM by eronald » Logged
yaya
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1150



WWW
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2014, 04:56:26 PM »
ReplyReply

Edmund the medium format police says that this thread belongs to another forum Wink
Logged

Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Mamiya Leaf |
e: ysh@mamiyaleaf.com | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | www.mamiyaleaf.com | yaya's blog
eronald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4260



« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2014, 05:19:05 PM »
ReplyReply

Edmund the medium format police says that this thread belongs to another forum Wink

Yair,
 
 I would be the first to agree Smiley

 However you got here just in time to tell us about the new body and the new Credo back ... inquiring minds want to know and now you been' asked.

 BTW, I bought the Merrill in large part as a cheap way to do a project which I failed to do with my old MF back, usually I'm not much of an open air landscape guy.

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 06:26:58 PM by eronald » Logged
ondebanks
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 860



« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2014, 08:32:31 AM »
ReplyReply

Good to have your input, Edmund. Congratulations on the new acquisition. Not to temper your initial enthusiasm, but on my 'maiden voyage' with the DP3M earlier this year came across this - jpg below - any ideas what we call this,  surely not sensor bloom ?

That's straightforward channel saturation. Probably exacerbated in Foveon by the maths to separate out the colour channels.

Sensor bloom is a bit different - it's when you overexpose well beyond the point of the pixel wells saturating, and additional electrons spill into adjacent pixels in the same column. Modern photographic sensors have overflow drains at each pixel to eliminate this at moderate overexposure rates, but when the photons are landing too thick and fast (the sun is in the frame, say) even the overflow drain can be overwhelmed (at least in CCDs) and you get the tell-tale vertical streak of blooming.

BTW, the light-sensitive area lost by the addition of overflow drains is a major part of the reason why microlenses make such an improvement to the net quantum efficiency of sensors.

Ray
Logged
eronald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4260



« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2014, 08:47:43 AM »
ReplyReply

Here is a 200% crop of a snapshot. This thing is a bit like a timewarp, like shooting 400 ISO Ilford film, although unfortunately it only does 200 ISO well

Focus is ok, I guess one cannot hope for better without a real SLR, and then it's handheld ...

The rendering is nice, and there is this "enlargeability" of the best digital cameras; I think I am going to be able to make a decent print from this tiny crop.  

I think an MF camera based on Foveon tech might be really nice ...

The only complaint I have so far is that the lens is not really long enough for my style. I guess I should go and get the Merrill SLR as a walkabout.

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 09:01:30 AM by eronald » Logged
eronald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4260



« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2014, 06:49:37 PM »
ReplyReply

Yet another "test" image on day one.

Sharpening, clarity, etc - it's ridiculous to be flattening an image to make it less 3d but here we are anyway.

Interestingly enough, there is the MF-effect: the ergonomics of a too slow shutter speed, of watching the back screen and waiting for focus to lock are so bad that even snapshots become deliberate, watching and predicting the subject's pauses becomes a necessity.

On the positive side, the DP3M does not make people nervous, no strange glances.

What I would really like is a Hasselblad back with a Foveon sensor Smiley

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 07:23:09 PM by eronald » Logged
RobertJ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 604


« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2014, 04:55:32 PM »
ReplyReply

The DP3M and DP2M might be the best studio cameras I've ever used.

Flash syncs at 1/2000th of a second, the AF is slow, but dead accurate.  Put it on a tripod, move the focus ring, and the LCD zooms in for precise focusing.  When you review an image on the LCD screen and zoom in, it goes straight to the focus point.  You can move the focus point anywhere you want (anywhere you want!) within a pretty large rectangular area.  I got a Hoodman Cinema LCD loupe for going handheld, though this camera is definitely made for the tripod (or flash).

I added a PC sync hot shoe adapter, L plate with grip, a Joby wrist strap, and an LCD protector from fleabay.

Have fun!
Logged
Manoli
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 735


« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2014, 03:57:32 AM »
ReplyReply

Just a quick heads-up to say that Sean Reid has published a new article based on BW studio testing of the Sigma DP2 Quattro, Sigma DP2 Merrill and Leica Monochrom. The Sigma conversions were drawn from blue channel information (top layer of the sensor) and also looks at the effect of using color filters, on the Quattro and Merrill, to alter tonality.

Subscriber site, but well worth the modest cost. In short, the DP2m gives little, if anything, away to the M Monochrom.
Logged
eronald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4260



« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2014, 06:59:18 AM »
ReplyReply

Just a quick heads-up to say that Sean Reid has published a new article based on BW studio testing of the Sigma DP2 Quattro, Sigma DP2 Merrill and Leica Monochrom. The Sigma conversions were drawn from blue channel information (top layer of the sensor) and also looks at the effect of using color filters, on the Quattro and Merrill, to alter tonality.

Subscriber site, but well worth the modest cost. In short, the DP2m gives little, if anything, away to the M Monochrom.

On the downside, in monochrome my DP3M has slight banding issues which the software can deal with, and you should not delete images or you can corrupt the card.

However  it is clearly in a class of its owń, a lightweight cheap unit capable of taking on any other daylight-camera in terms of image quality. Handheld macros are stunning, vegetation rendering is unrivalled, building textures jump out as if you touched them.

If you want the MF experience in a miniature package, with fewer pixels, without the MF budget, then the DP3M is a nice buy. You can get better image quality, but only at 6x the price.

Edmund
Logged
eronald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4260



« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2014, 06:18:32 PM »
ReplyReply

"If you want the MF experience in a miniature package, with fewer pixels, without the MF budget, then the DP3M is a nice buy. "


PROOF (click a second time to enlarge) Smiley

e.
Logged
Manoli
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 735


« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2014, 07:07:52 PM »
ReplyReply

However  it is clearly in a class of its owń ...

Yes, but I think that Sigma made a considered and conscious design decision to shape the thing like a brick - there are times when I'm sorely tempted to take advantage of it's 'form follows function' purpose ..

Logged
eronald
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4260



« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2014, 04:38:43 PM »
ReplyReply

Did I get ripped off for my $400?  You tell me. Comments below

First the crop, then the whole frame. F4.5, 1/400s.

Edmund
« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 08:50:46 AM by eronald » Logged
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad