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Author Topic: LCD Monitor Recommendations  (Read 443269 times)
Nill Toulme
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« Reply #100 on: November 26, 2006, 08:09:57 AM »
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George what are you using?  I have the Eye One Display 2, and the monitor calibrates beautifully and easily with it using either the Eye One Match 3.6 software or NEC's Spectraview II software.

Nill
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georgek
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« Reply #101 on: November 26, 2006, 09:52:59 AM »
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Quote from: Nill Toulme,Nov 26 2006, 02:09 PM
George what are you using?  I have the Eye One Display 2, and the monitor calibrates beautifully and easily with it using either the Eye One Match 3.6 software or NEC's Spectraview II software.

Thanks for your swift reply guys.

No, I haven't got Adobe gamma and I'm using a Monaco OPTIX XR and last night an Eye One Photo with Spectraview profiler 4.0.2 and my settings are:
--Hardware calibration
--White point D65
--Tonal responce curve L*
--White luminance max and black luminance min. I've also tried white luminance and contrast and black luminance and contrast.
--Profile type 16bit LUT based. ICC v4 profile.
If you want I can calibrate again and upload a screenshot of the results.

Nill you say it calibrates beautifully and easily with Eye One Match 3.6 software but how can you do a hardware calibration with Eye One Match??

Regards
George
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Nill Toulme
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« Reply #102 on: November 26, 2006, 12:13:11 PM »
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Ah well, there's hardware calibration and then there's hardware calibration, isn't there.  Personally I consider using a puck, any puck to calibrate the monitor to be a "hardware calibration."  I take it you're using that term to mean bypassing the video card entirely and calibrating the monitor directly.  You can do that with the Spectraview II software and the Eye One Display 2 puck (or the Monaco OptixXR, among others), but not, strictly speaking, with the Eye One Match software.  The latter will, however, calibrate in DDC/CI mode (at least with some video cards).

I'm not familiar with Spectraview 4.02.  If that's the old version, then I'm surprised it will work with the xx90 series at all.  I'm using Spectraview II v1.0.30.

I shouldn't think you'd want to calibrate to max luminance.  A typical starting point would be more like 120cd/m˛.  I work in a fairly dim room and calibrate mine to 100cd/m˛.  My other settings are white point D65, gamma 2.2.

Nill
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georgek
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« Reply #103 on: November 26, 2006, 05:11:31 PM »
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Thanks Nill. I tried a "software" calibration using Eye One Match and worked fine.
 
Spectraview profiler 4.0.2 is the version that supports hardware calibration.

Out of curiosity what is your black setting?

George
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budjames
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« Reply #104 on: November 26, 2006, 06:26:28 PM »
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Any users of Eizo CE240 displays on a Window platform out there that want to share their experiences and comparison with the monitors that their Eize replaced?

Thanks in advance for sharing.

Bud
North Wales, PA
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Bud James
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Nill Toulme
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« Reply #105 on: November 26, 2006, 06:42:19 PM »
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George are you in the U.S.?  I just want to make sure we're on the same page here — NEC's EU Spectraview software is different from the U.S. versions.

Nill
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georgek
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« Reply #106 on: November 27, 2006, 05:02:17 AM »
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Quote from: Nill Toulme,Nov 27 2006, 12:42 AM
George are you in the U.S.?  I just want to make sure we're on the same page here — NEC's EU Spectraview software is different from the U.S. versions.

No. I'm in the UK. Spectraview profiler in the UK supports hardware calibration.

George
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Nill Toulme
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« Reply #107 on: November 27, 2006, 07:55:29 AM »
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Ah, OK, we have a different version, Spectraview II, in the U.S.  

As for black level, on most recent run it reported a black level of 0.41 cd/m˛.

Nill
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jlmwyo
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« Reply #108 on: December 01, 2006, 03:03:42 AM »
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Hrm, interesting:

Quote
04, Nov, 2006 / SEC)
SAMSUNG Introduces 20" LED BLU Monitor That Features Up To 114 Percent Of NTSC Color Gamut
New 20-inch monitor designed for users with demanding color needs
IRVINE, Calif. - November 2, 2006 - Samsung Electronics America, Inc., a world-leading manufacturer of professional LCD and PDP display products, today introduced the SyncMaster XL20, a 20-inch Light Emitting Diode (LED) Back Light Unit (BLU) monitor that features up to 114 percent of the National Television System Committee (NTSC) color gamut.

Designed for color critical applications, desktop publishers, video and photography editors and graphic designers, the XL20 supports users that demand extremely accurate color temperature, linearly color tracking, brightness uniformity and color reproduction. Traditional LCD screens typically cover only 82 percent of the NTSC standard color gamut (CRT covers 76 percent), while the new XL20 utilizes a unique light emitting diode back light unit (LED BLU), increasing the color gamut up to 114 percent of the NTSC color gamut.

The LED BLU increases the ability to create significantly enhanced images producing a more natural range of color, and covering the full Adobe RGB natural color space / gamut. The LED backlight also lacks mercury or halogen.

"Samsung is unwavering in its commitment to innovation, and with the XL20 Samsung once again sets the standard for superior image quality, great performance and attractive design," said Andrew Weis, product marketing manager, display products, Samsung Electronics America, Inc. "This product is a good choice for individuals seeking a high level of color reproduction and quality."

The XL20 is further enhanced by a Color Management System (CMS) that helps provide vivid and precise color. The CMS includes color calibration, which enables more accurate quality control, and Image Viewer, an intuitive tool that corrects color differences between monitors and printers. The XL20 is also equipped with Natural Color Expert software, which allows users to calibrate the monitor's color profile to fit their specific color requirements.

In addition to its ultra-wide color gamut and innovative color performance, the XL20 offers other notable specifications, including an impressive 1000:1 contrast ratio, a wide 178 degree viewing angle, a fast 8ms (GTG) response time and high resolution of 1600 x 1200.

In addition to its quality specifications, the XL20 is designed to support a comfortable, yet stylish work environment. It is equipped with a height adjustable stand and pivot capabilities for increased comfort, and comes complete with an attractive detachable hood. The hood allows users to appreciate the professional image quality and accurate color representation, by blocking unwanted surrounding ambient light, and producing a pure color temperature.

Competitively priced at $1,999 MSRP, the XL20 is currently available through Samsung resellers and distribution channels, which can be located by calling 1-800-SAMSUNG or by visiting www.samsung.com. Samsung Power Partners receive special promotions, lead referrals, training and technical support, as well as collateral and marketing materials. To find out more about becoming a Samsung Power Partner visit www.samsungpartner.com.

All Samsung displays are backed by a three-year parts and labor warranty, including the backlight, as well as toll-free technical support for the life of the display.
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David White
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« Reply #109 on: December 01, 2006, 12:00:19 PM »
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Ah well, there's hardware calibration and then there's hardware calibration, isn't there.  Personally I consider using a puck, any puck to calibrate the monitor to be a "hardware calibration."  I take it you're using that term to mean bypassing the video card entirely and calibrating the monitor directly.  You can do that with the Spectraview II software and the Eye One Display 2 puck (or the Monaco OptixXR, among others), but not, strictly speaking, with the Eye One Match software.  The latter will, however, calibrate in DDC/CI mode (at least with some video cards).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=87174\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Seems to be some confusion over terms.  Calibration is the act of placing the monitor into a known state (gamma, luminance, white point).  For most 8-bit monitors, the luminance is probably the only value that should be changed because an 8-bit LUT in the video card can introduce aliasing artifacts.  Monitors with larger internal LUTs do not suffer as much from the conversion.

Profiling is used to descibe the behavior of a calibrated device to generate a profile that will be used within a color management system.

I use NEC SpectraView II (V1.0.30) with the Eye-One Pro to calibrate the monitor and then ProfileMaker or Eye-One Match 3.6 is used to generate a profile after calibration.  This is on a LCD2190UXi.

With this monitor I am able to generate a set of patches with typical values for the Macbeth colorchecker card and it matches beautifully to the actual card after calibration and profiling.
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David White
Nill Toulme
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« Reply #110 on: December 01, 2006, 12:24:07 PM »
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Seems to be some confusion over terms.
Always... this is an area where various terms are used differently by different people in different contexts.


Quote
Profiling is used to descibe the behavior of a calibrated device to generate a profile that will be used within a color management system.
Yes, but wouldn't you agree that there is "software only" profiling a la Adobe Gamma, and "hardware" profiling such as with the Eye One Display 2 and Eye One Match software?


Quote
I use NEC SpectraView II (V1.0.30) with the Eye-One Pro to calibrate the monitor and then ProfileMaker or Eye-One Match 3.6 is used to generate a profile after calibration.  This is on a LCD2190UXi.
Spectraview II both calibrates my 2090uxi and generates and registers a new default Windows profile, all at the press of a button.  Why do you take the extra step of using Match to generate the profile?

Nill
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David White
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« Reply #111 on: December 01, 2006, 02:59:45 PM »
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Always... this is an area where various terms are used differently by different people in different contexts.
Yes, but wouldn't you agree that there is "software only" profiling a la Adobe Gamma, and "hardware" profiling such as with the Eye One Display 2 and Eye One Match software?
Spectraview II both calibrates my 2090uxi and generates and registers a new default Windows profile, all at the press of a button.  Why do you take the extra step of using Match to generate the profile?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88084\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Nill,

True, different terms are used differently by different people, but I see many people saying that they have calibrated their monitor when what they have really done is create a profile of their monitor

Given the way that you state it, I would tend to agree that there is "software" and "hardware" profiling or perhaps "hardware-assisted profiling".

I realize that Spectraview II can produce a profile, but the profiles generated by Spectraview and ProfileMaker are slightly different in emphasis and I have a preference for the ProfileMaker profile because it fits the type of images I produce.  It's a minor difference between the two and probably not noticeable by 99% of the population.
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David White
Nill Toulme
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« Reply #112 on: December 01, 2006, 03:08:59 PM »
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Thanks David, that's interesting.  I had thought I had a slight preference for the profile/calibration produced by Spectraview II over what I was getting with Eye One Match 3.6, but I had put that down to (a) mere perception & cognitive dissonance or (b) the improved calibration provided by Spectraview.  It hadn't occurred to me that it might be due, in whole or in part, to a difference in the profiles produced by the two programs.  

Nill
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« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 03:10:34 PM by Nill Toulme » Logged
David White
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« Reply #113 on: December 01, 2006, 03:34:10 PM »
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Thanks David, that's interesting.  I had thought I had a slight preference for the profile/calibration produced by Spectraview II over what I was getting with Eye One Match 3.6, but I had put that down to (a) mere perception & cognitive dissonance or ( the improved calibration provided by Spectraview.  It hadn't occurred to me that it might be due, in whole or in part, to a difference in the profiles produced by the two programs. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=88120\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Nill,

It's a very subtle difference, but easily seen if you have CHROMIX ColorThink or similiar software and overlay the two profiles.  One had  a slightly greater width in blue and the other in red.  No cognitive dissonance going on, at least perceptually.  
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David White
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« Reply #114 on: December 03, 2006, 10:26:27 AM »
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Any users of Eizo CE240 displays on a Window platform out there that want to share their experiences and comparison with the monitors that their Eize replaced?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I recently purchased the S2410 have a look [a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13168&view=findpost&p=88149]here[/url]
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Justdave Photography
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« Reply #115 on: December 12, 2006, 10:22:09 PM »
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i am new to lcds i have always thought crt have the best and most acurite colours etc.

what should i get for photoshop ?

i was looking at this

LG 1952T ?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2006, 10:26:06 PM by Justdave Photography » Logged
dcloward
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« Reply #116 on: January 01, 2007, 10:07:31 PM »
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Hello,
I don't know if "Neoprinter" will read this post, but he seemed to be the qualified expert on color accurate displays.  However, I will be pleased if anyone can help me with my question.

I am not a serious photographer.  I have a Canon Digital Rebel XTI and am a point and shoot user,  but want to get the best quality results I can with that approach.  As probably is common, my pictures sit on a hard drive and never get printed.  I find that everyone is glued to my slide show screen saver, so I decided about a year ago I wanted to buy a display and frame it on the wall and run a slideshow constantly.  I first looked into TVs and DVD players and now am looking at a 30" LCD monitor and probably a Mac to drive it.  We keep our photos on my wife's new Macbook.  I first looked at the Apple monitor, but then read reviews that gave the Dell 3007WFP and most recently the yet to be shipped Samsung 305T much higher ratings.  When I visited the Apple store today, they told me the same thing I have heard a few times - although the other monitors may have better specs, the Apple has much higher "color accuracy."

So, I assume that color accuracy means just that - the colors are more true to life.  So, given my intended application is to simply display my photos in a slideshow on the wall and since I won't be probably doing any serious edit work beyond the beginning tools in Apple's iPhoto- will I notice the difference between these displays?

Is the Apple worth the money over the Dell?

Has anyone read enough about the Samsung 305T (suggested retail $2K) to comment on that one?

Having said that, when I bought my last TV years ago, I did notice a big difference between an $8K Pioneer Elite and the other Pioneer or less expensive TVs.  I did pay to have the TV's color temperatures set and calibrated.  I don't really want to have to a bunch of adjustments to this LCD monitor and from what I have read so far on this forum, it sounds like you can't really adjust the color accuracy well.

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave
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digitaldog
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« Reply #117 on: January 02, 2007, 09:07:40 AM »
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So, I assume that color accuracy means just that - the colors are more true to life.

That's what an awful lot of photographers think or want to believe. Accurate Color is one of those marketing BS terms or a term loosely used that means very little. It can't look like the scene. It can be pleasing OR it can be colorimetrically accurate. That means you use a reference grade instrument and measure the accuracy. Anything else is just measuring with a rubber ruler.

Again and again I post this article by the ICC whereby those using the term above need to understand what they want when they say accurate color:

http://www.color.org/ICC_white_paper_20_Di...ment_basics.pdf

Read, spread the word, don't accept the term accurate until someone provides a real matrix in a measurable term. Otherwise, it's all a lot of hot air and pontificating (usually by someone trying to sell you something).

Scene referred colorimetry is accurate. Its often not what anyone wishes for expressing their images to others...
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Andrew Rodney
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gslrider
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« Reply #118 on: April 18, 2007, 12:14:00 PM »
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I've owned the Acer AL226W and the Samsung 226BW, and the colours are great.  Pretty accurate.  The problem I'm seeing with the 22" LCDs is that on vertical pitch, the top portion of the display gets darker than the lower part.  You would literally have to be looking down to view images normally.  The lower you go (pitch looking up), the more you notice the top of the screen getting darker in comparison to the bottom.  This plays such a huge factor when it comes to viewing colours.

Initially from what I was told, this may have to do with a faulty display.  But I've tested about 5 different LCD monitors (all 22"), and they all did that.  The only ones that I didn't notice this issue with was the Apple Cinema displays ($1000), the LG 23" HD monitor ($1000), and a smaller 20" NEC LCD 2070nx display.

I'm just wondering if this is just an issue with your run of the mill 22" displays.  I have a budget, and really can't afford the Cinema's right now.  Can anyone explain this strange "phenomenom", and perhaps recommend an affordable 22" LCD that doesn't have this issue.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 12:15:16 PM by gslrider » Logged
LA30
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« Reply #119 on: August 19, 2007, 09:43:56 PM »
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Bump!

What are people buying for around $1500-2000 w/calibrator USD for 21"?

Ken
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