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Author Topic: Konica Minolta pull out  (Read 7641 times)
pixman63
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« on: January 19, 2006, 01:40:10 AM »
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I just heard on BBC Radio 4's Today programme that KM are withdrawing from the photographic market. The camera side of the business is being sold to Sony, while the film side is being closed down.
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roli_bark
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2006, 02:17:33 AM »
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I just heard on BBC Radio 4's Today programme that KM are withdrawing from the photographic market. The camera side of the business is being sold to Sony, while the film side is being closed down.
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[a href=\"http://www.dpreview.com/news/0601/06011901konicaminoltaout.asp]http://www.dpreview.com/news/0601/06011901...aminoltaout.asp[/url]
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pixman63
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2006, 02:22:55 AM »
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Press release here.
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BJL
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2006, 11:16:20 AM »
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A few comments on the Konica-Minolta/Sony news. K.-M. is giving up completely on film products and compact digital cameras, but it seems they will still be involved in making DSLR cameras and lenses under the new Sony brand name. That probably means K.-M making bodies into which Sony will put the sensors and other electronics, and making their existing 35mm format lenses to the extent that they are useful with Sony DSLR's. As far as I can tell, K.-M. does not make any of the three digital "DT" lenses, they all come from OEM's (Tamron and Cosina?), so those OEM's will simply put the Sony name on them from now on. Or maybe the rented Zeiss name?
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61Dynamic
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2006, 11:49:11 AM »
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Even though I shoot Canon, KM was a camera I heavily considered for an upgrade later down the road once they released the successor to the 7D.

Now that they are owned by Sony, they are not even going to be in the ballpark for consideration.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2006, 12:15:20 PM »
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Now that they are owned by Sony, they are not even going to be in the ballpark for consideration.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=56318\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Why so if I may ask?

Regards,
Bernard
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DiaAzul
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2006, 03:11:52 PM »
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Why so if I may ask?

Regards,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=56322\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Digital Rights Management. They will probably implement some form of proprietary format for your pictures which ties you into using their products down the line to store, transmit and view your own pictures.

History speaks volumes for Sony's product developments and their insistance on 'standards' which no-one else either wants to or is able to use (think Betamax, Atrac, Blue Ray, etc..)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2006, 03:13:24 PM by DiaAzul » Logged

David Plummer    http://photo.tanzo.org/
dbell
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2006, 03:47:50 PM »
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Digital Rights Management. They will probably implement some form of proprietary format for your pictures which ties you into using their products down the line to store, transmit and view your own pictures.

History speaks volumes for Sony's product developments and their insistance on 'standards' which no-one else either wants to or is able to use (think Betamax, Atrac, Blue Ray, etc..)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=56338\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Add to that the fact that they seem willing to engage in unethical business practices (such as shipping CDs with auto-installing rootkits on them) in order to enforce their DRM policies. Unless I have no other choice, I will not do business with Sony.
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jani
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2006, 06:46:03 PM »
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And then we have this business about "chipping" lenses and flashes in order to make them communicate so well with the camera, that competitor's can't create competitive products without reverse-engineering, often impossible because of patents and whatnot.

So don't buy Canon or Nikon, either, they're all about vendor lock-in, too.
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Jan
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2006, 07:10:00 PM »
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I do not recall canon compromising my computer the first time I hooked my camera up to my pc.
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jani
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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2006, 07:40:57 PM »
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I do not recall canon compromising my computer the first time I hooked my camera up to my pc.
Do you recall Sony doing the same the first time you hooked your Sony camera up to your PC?

No?

Sony even permits third-party batteries (without the infolitihium feature) to work in their cameras. From what I understand, Nikon does not, with their D200. Nevermind the NEF bungle.

Canon patented their E-TTL solution to the extent that Metz cannot make equivalent flashes. Doesn't this bother you?

If you're looking for a big company to behave in an ethically clean manner all the time, you're going to be looking for a long, long time.

Sure, Sony Music (former Columbia Music) -- not Sony Electronics, who make the cameras -- have really screwed up with their DRM. There's no need to deny that. So don't buy stuff from Sony Music.
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Jan
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« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2006, 08:14:39 PM »
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Still Sony.  (Not that I really care.)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2006, 08:17:04 PM by DarkPenguin » Logged
61Dynamic
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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2006, 08:16:14 PM »
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Why so if I may ask?

Regards,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=56322\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


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Digital Rights Management. They will probably implement some form of proprietary format for your pictures which ties you into using their products down the line to store, transmit and view your own pictures.

History speaks volumes for Sony's product developments and their insistance on 'standards' which no-one else either wants to or is able to use (think Betamax, Atrac, Blue Ray, etc..)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=56338\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

DiaAzul, dbell and DarkPenguin hit the nail on the head. Sony has no respect for its customers and that is not opinion, it's fact based off their track record; particularly recently.

jani is missing the point by a long shot... The decision for the rootkit and the DRM snafus came from the top at Sony. Not just the music branch and production branch. Not only that, but their attitude and arrogance (again, from the top of the company) in thinking that they did no wrong in the situation further shows that Sony as a whole is not a customer-friendly company.
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macgyver
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2006, 11:27:04 PM »
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Personally, I've had such bad experiances with Sony in general that I'd be hard pressed to buy anything from them.  However, in interest of fairness, from what I hear one of Sony's biggest problems as a company is the fact that all their various divisions are both highly competitive and have very little cooperation with each other.  So, (again, in the interest of fairness) I would venture to say that the actions of Sony Music and Sony Photo (or whatever) could be very different.  Or very similar, I don't have anything specific to cite here.

My few cents.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2006, 12:57:49 AM »
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Add to that the fact that they seem willing to engage in unethical business practices (such as shipping CDs with auto-installing rootkits on them) in order to enforce their DRM policies. Unless I have no other choice, I will not do business with Sony.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=56343\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You should also avoid doing business with:

- Intel
- MS

-> the 2 limitations above only leave an AMD box running Linux
-> no PS
-> no serious photo work
-> a photographer can simply just not afford to work only with ethical companies these days, it would be clearly self defeating.

Regards,
Bernard
« Last Edit: January 20, 2006, 12:58:25 AM by BernardLanguillier » Logged

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roli_bark
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« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2006, 01:05:11 AM »
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You should also avoid doing business with:

- Intel
- MS

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=56385\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That statement is going overboard.
I'm not aware that either Intel or MS have ever used maliciuous Virus-ware embedded in their SW packages installation CDs (Sony's 'rootkit' being such...)
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2006, 01:38:08 AM »
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That statement is going overboard.
I'm not aware that either Intel or MS have ever used maliciuous Virus-ware embedded in their SW packages installation CDs (Sony's 'rootkit' being such...)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=56386\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, I guess that it all depends on what you call un-ethical.

As far as I am concerned, I call un-ethical a whole set of business practises that tend to prevent competition and are against the fundamental spirit of the law.

I just don't buy the idea that large companies can buy out ethics in court, this doesn't change a thing.

Regards,
Bernard
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jani
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« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2006, 03:12:50 AM »
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DiaAzul, dbell and DarkPenguin hit the nail on the head. Sony has no respect for its customers and that is not opinion, it's fact based off their track record; particularly recently.

jani is missing the point by a long shot...
Perhaps it's you who are missing my point by a long shot?

I'm trying to point out that there are other, serious and probably unethical business practices which were oh-so-popular to diss just a short while ago.

Suddenly there's a new badguy in town, and then all is nice and dandy with the previous badguys, because they're competing with the new guy.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" -- well, I'm inclined to disagree.

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The decision for the rootkit and the DRM snafus came from the top at Sony.
Really? Do you have evidence for that?
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Jan
61Dynamic
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« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2006, 10:46:41 AM »
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Really? Do you have evidence for that?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=56391\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It was reported in the news at one point in the heat of the issue and I don't have time to go hunting across the net for it right now.



I'm not going to get into an argument in the issue. Your (and others) comparisons of what Sony has done with other companies shows a great level of naivety of the magnitude of Sony's actions not to mention the direct connection of those actions to other legal issues regarding fair use rights plaguing our country at the moment. Sony violated our fair use rights (which are Constitutionally protected), vandalized private property, lied numerous times about it, opened their customers up to malicious attack, and did not learn a damned thing from it; no apology has come from them as they continue to think they did the right thing.

Sure, other companies do bad things too, but the Sony issue was the straw that broke the camels back much like Nikon was with the whole raw file thing. This time however, the Sony issue was less like a straw and more like a 2-ton piano.

You have every right to support the company if you choose to do so but I (and several others) have chosen to put our money into a more trustworthy company.
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dbell
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« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2006, 01:28:29 PM »
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To try to answer several posts at once:

Sony is not the only company that I avoid doing business wtih for ethical reasons. I'm not here for the purpose of bashing vendors, so I'm not going to list them out.

I also disagree with what other equipment makers do with regards to vendor lock-in, but to me, there's a difference between making products that are incompatible with competing products (or that are designed to boost the sales of accessories) and making products that are deliberately destructive to customer property. No corporate interest justifies a company's selling me a product that is expressly designed to covertly undermine the security of my computer.

And  yes, it is a matter of degree. There are plenty of arguments to be made about the bad behavior of lots of other big companies. That's fine, and public scrutiy of corporate behavior is healthy. It's up to the individual to decide how far is too far and to show their disapproval by witholding their dollars. Sony doesn't get any more of my money.


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Daniel Bell
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