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Author Topic: Epson 4000 printing too dark?  (Read 5613 times)
hughhill
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« on: January 25, 2006, 09:36:01 PM »
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I am a new subscriber here I hope that I have come through to the right section if not please accept my apologies.

Please can someone assist me, I have just got an Epson 4000 I bought it from a photographer who had to sell it due to financial difficulties, anyway to cut a long story short it looks great but when I try to print it looks really dark the drivers he gave me with them were for a Mac but me being a pc user could not use them as they were unreadable on my system.
I downloaded all the suggested files from Epson’s US website installed them and spent most of last night and around 10hrs today trying to get it to print right but it is just too dark. I think that maybe the profiles are way, way out but how?

The colors seem too saturated and too much black coming through; I have never experienced this problem with my 2000P nor my 1160 or even my old 1520.
Please can someone tell me what I am doing wrong and what I can do to resolve it?


Thank you

ps I have included a photo of the dark print for an Idea of what I am up against
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jani
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2006, 05:39:45 AM »
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1) Is your monitor calibrated with a hardware calibrator such as the X-Rite Monaco Optix XT or Pro, Gretag Macbeth Eye-One or similar?
2) Are you using soft-proofing in Photoshop or similar software before printing?

If you haven't calibrated as per point 1 and aren't using soft-proofing as per point 2, then what you see on your screen will only rarely be what you get on your printer.
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Jan
hughhill
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2006, 02:59:25 PM »
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Jani three weeks ago a friend came and profiled my laptop (Sony Vaio) as for the soft proofing no I did not use this, I have downloaded all the drivers from epson the firmweare upgrade yet still very dark please if you have any suggestions I would be grateful.

Hugh



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1) Is your monitor calibrated with a hardware calibrator such as the X-Rite Monaco Optix XT or Pro, Gretag Macbeth Eye-One or similar?
2) Are you using soft-proofing in Photoshop or similar software before printing?

If you haven't calibrated as per point 1 and aren't using soft-proofing as per point 2, then what you see on your screen will only rarely be what you get on your printer.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2006, 03:11:27 PM »
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It sounds to me as if your colour management settings are incorrect. This very dark printing happens when you have no colour management or colour management OFF selected in the printer driver, and "Let printer determine colors" selected in Photopshop's Print with Preview detailed colour settings menu. So with this combination what happens is that NOTHING is determining colors and you get a dark mess.

Make sure in Photoshop's print with Preview that you have "Let Photoshop Determine Colors" selected, then make sure you have the correct Epson profile for the paper you are using selected, and then in printer driver make sure you have Printer COlor Management off, and in fact have selected No Color Management in the Printer Driver.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
hughhill
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2006, 04:07:17 PM »
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Hi Mark,

First of all let me thank you for replying,

I know what you are saying because that is exactly what I did last night and I got myself confused at some point which is why today I reinstalled everything again letting only the printer determine the colours and of course leaving the printer colour management on!
What happened then was exactly the same, the print was way too dark. So I finally got to the point to increase the brightness to its maximum level (+25%) in the printer colour managment and I reduced the colour density to (-20%) the print obtained with these changes was almost correct but I feel that I should not have to go to such lengths with the epson 4000!!

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It sounds to me as if your colour management settings are incorrect. This very dark printing happens when you have no colour management or colour management OFF selected in the printer driver, and "Let printer determine colors" selected in Photopshop's Print with Preview detailed colour settings menu. So with this combination what happens is that NOTHING is determining colors and you get a dark mess.

Make sure in Photoshop's print with Preview that you have "Let Photoshop Determine Colors" selected, then make sure you have the correct Epson profile for the paper you are using selected, and then in printer driver make sure you have Printer COlor Management off, and in fact have selected No Color Management in the Printer Driver.
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Lisa Nikodym
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2006, 05:31:39 PM »
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If you ever get confused about printer settings, Ian Lyons's Computer Darkroom web site has simple, clear articles detailing consistent ways to set things up.  This is the basic article on the subject on his site:

http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7_print/ps7_print_1.htm

I'd recommend giving it a look and seeing whether your settings are consistent with his.

Lisa
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Tim Gray
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2006, 06:05:33 PM »
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I see Lisa has referred you to Ian Lyons site - I was going to do the same - check out http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps8_colour/ps8_1.htm  and
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps9_print/ps9_print_1.htm if your using PS CS.

This is a tough problem to diagnose in a message thread - there are lots of settings that can be wrong - but the adjustments you are making should not be required.  Someting's wrong.  Go through Ian's material step by step and at least rule out the obvious stuff.  

It might help to post the native jpg - to see what it's supposed to look like.
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hughhill
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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2006, 03:36:03 AM »
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Thanks Lisa, Tim for that link I have viewed it and put it into fav's for closer scrutiny later.

I have done all that you said Tim except the printer alignment, will try that soon too!
here is a comparrison please look at the file attached labled market.jpeg
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hughhill
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« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2006, 03:39:55 AM »
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Sorry guy's that was trhe normal image which prints out fine on both the 1160 & 2000P here is the file with a comparrison,


Hugh
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Ray
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« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2006, 07:43:28 AM »
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Now let's get this straight, Hugh. Your friend came over and profiled your Sony laptop   . I wouldn't use a laptop in any circumstances for critical print reproduction. Tilt the screen a few degrees up or down and it's not longer calibrated.

You also haven't mentioned if you are using Photoshop and if so, what version.
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Tim Gray
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« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2006, 08:39:21 AM »
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Based on the pair of shots posted I don't see this as a callibration issue.  The Jpg Hugh sees on screen look fine printed on a 200p.

Maybe a paper/profile mismatch?
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drew
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« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2006, 11:50:41 AM »
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Hi Mark,

First of all let me thank you for replying,

I know what you are saying because that is exactly what I did last night and I got myself confused at some point which is why today I reinstalled everything again letting only the printer determine the colours and of course leaving the printer colour management on!
What happened then was exactly the same, the print was way too dark. So I finally got to the point to increase the brightness to its maximum level (+25%) in the printer colour managment and I reduced the colour density to (-20%) the print obtained with these changes was almost correct but I feel that I should not have to go to such lengths with the epson 4000!!


QUOTE(MarkDS @ Jan 26 2006, 04:11 PM)
It sounds to me as if your colour management settings are incorrect. This very dark printing happens when you have no colour management or colour management OFF selected in the printer driver, and "Let printer determine colors" selected in Photopshop's Print with Preview detailed colour settings menu. So with this combination what happens is that NOTHING is determining colors and you get a dark mess.

Make sure in Photoshop's print with Preview that you have "Let Photoshop Determine Colors" selected, then make sure you have the correct Epson profile for the paper you are using selected, and then in printer driver make sure you have Printer COlor Management off, and in fact have selected No Color Management in the Printer Driver.
Mark gave you good advice there, but you seem to have done the exact opposite of what he was suggesting. You need to read his second paragraph more clearly, but especially read Ian Lyon's articles. My only other suggestion is that you do the usual nozzle check and make sure all nozzles are firing. There is nothing inherently wrong with the Epson 4000, which is a very good printer.
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drew
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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2006, 12:16:13 PM »
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In fact looking at this, there are all sorts of imponderables, which is why I might sound slightly exasperated, particularly as this kind of query is hardly unusual.
You say you are a PC user, but it would be helpful to know the following:
1/ What OS? This will help me to direct you to the folder that contains your profiles, assuming that in loading the 4000 drivers, Epsons canned profiles have been copied to this folder.
2/ What is your image editor? There is an assumption here that it is Photoshop CS2, but is it?
3/ How do you normally manage your colour workflow? You say a friend calibrated your laptop monitor (?for the first time) just three weeks ago. Sorry, but this does not inspire confidence that you do know what is being said to you.
To emphasise what has already been said, if you use output profiles for printing, by definition you never let the printer driver manage colour.
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hughhill
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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2006, 01:33:02 PM »
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'Make sure in Photoshop's print with Preview that you have "Let Photoshop Determine Colors" selected, then make sure you have the correct Epson profile for the paper you are using selected, and then in printer driver make sure you have Printer Colour Management off, and in fact have selected No Color Management in the Printer Driver.'

I have done this, I have also tried the opposite leaving the printer colour management on in the printer driver and let the printer determine the colours in the photoshop print preview window so that I was not using photoshops colour management.

as regrads to the media types, I selected the paper I was using.

I have have only used epson printers mainly 1160's and 1520 but also have the 2000P and I have always used the printer colour management without problems!

Something that i noticed and may be helpful: when i used Photoshop color managment by assigning the ICC profile of the media paper type used i noticed that the image that was given on my screen was exactly the same dark look of the print..............to me this means that the monitor is calibrated,but maybe the ICC profiles coming with the drivers are wrong for some reasons?
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2006, 02:15:38 PM »
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No, Epson's paper profiles are fine. Based on what you've said so far, if you are using the Epson driver and the correct Epson supplied profiles for the 4000 printer and the specific Epson paper you are using, and you have SOFT PROOF turned ON in Photoshop (assuming you are using Photoshop CS or CS2) and you have the profiles in the correct folder of your operating system, (with printer color management OFF in the Epson driver) and Let Photoshop Determine Colors ON in Photoshop Print with Preview) all you need to do henceforth is keep SOFT PROOF switched ON when you make your luminosity and colour adjustments, and assuming your monitor is properly calibrated and profiled (and you view it directly with very little surrounding light) your prints should come out the way you wish. Make sure your soft-proof set-up is correct.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
gr82bart
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2006, 12:30:00 PM »
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Please can someone assist me
First off what is your workflow?

I will assume you are trying to print from a digital camera. Here's an example workflow:

1. Calibrate your monitor.
2. Capture your images in RAW. Do not use any camera sharpening.
3. In PS, makes sure your working space is at its widest colour gamut - Adobe RGB 1998 for example.
4. Make all your edits in PS. Sharpen at the very end.
5. Convert to your printer resolution.
6. Calibrate your printer.
7. Convert your working image to your printer profile (CMYK).
8. Print.

So now, if this is your basic workflow, you will have to determine where in the workflow the problem is originating. Use the UPDIG as a guide to standardizing your workflow.

I don't know if this helps.

Regards, Art.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 12:45:13 PM by gr82bart » Logged

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jani
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2006, 05:10:20 PM »
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Something that i noticed and may be helpful: when i used Photoshop color managment by assigning the ICC profile of the media paper type used i noticed that the image that was given on my screen was exactly the same dark look of the print..............to me this means that the monitor is calibrated,but maybe the ICC profiles coming with the drivers are wrong for some reasons?
Did you do this ("assign the ICC profile") by selecting View -> Proof Setup -> the profile for your paper?

If so, what you're seeing -- on a calibrated monitor -- is reasonably close to what you'll see in print, and that is exactly how it should be.

So, as others have mentioned, you need to work in this mode to modify the image's brightness, contrast and colours until they seem satisfactory. Disregard what they look like when you're not in the "proof colors" mode.
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